God is Triune

[Silas]

Plurality of God:

"‘I sent a plague among you after the manner of Egypt; I slew your young men by the sword along with your captured horses, and I made the stench of your camp rise up in your nostrils; yet you have not returned to Me,' declares the LORD. ‘I overthrew you as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah...'" - Amos 4:10-11

"Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven." - Gen 19:24

"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides me...‘" Isa 44:6

It is written:

"No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father; He has explained Him." - John 1:18


Question: Who was it that Abraham and some others see in the Old Testament?

Appearances of God (Theophanies)

"Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty; walk before Me, and be blameless." - Gen 17:1

"Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day." - Gen 18:1

"God spoke further to Moses and said to him, ‘I am the LORD; and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name LORD I did not make myself known to them.'" - Ex 6:2-3"

Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they beheld God, and they ate and drank." - Exo 24:9-11

[Dor]

Ok thought here.

Bible tells us no man has seen God.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Also says no one has heard him.
John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.


Yet way back in Genesis we see. Someone send man out of the Garden....well who was it. and who was he talking to?
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken

[wil]

Good questions.... There is one whole line of thought were Adam and Eve weren't quite human...so it would allow the no man has seen G-d? Except that then G-d did put skin on them and sendem packing...of course maybe they averted their eyes...

And I always enjoy where the they have become like us takes us...

This is where Judaic tradition and the midrash really have a lot to say and I wish I knew more...

[Dor]

Originally Posted by wil

Good questions.... There is one whole line of thought were Adam and Eve weren't quite human...so it would allow the no man has seen G-d? Except that then G-d did put skin on them and sendem packing...of course maybe they averted their eyes...

Is this all some take on Genesis 3:21?

[BlaznFattyz]

it was jesus in the garden, because he walked and talked with adam.
it was jesus in the tent with abraham that sat and ate with him.
all three were present on the mount with moses and he spoke with the father and the son who are yahweh. the presence of god the father made the ground holy, the lord jesus christ was revealed, and the spirit was the fire in the burning bush.
moses saw the back of god. because jesus christ has appeared to man, spoken face to face, and has even eaten with them, it is the presence of the father that made moses take off his sandals and not see the glory of his face, or he would die from it.
the baptism of jesus christ, the spirit of god as a dove, and the voice of the father proclaimed his son.

[pfw]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

it was jesus in the garden, because he walked and talked with adam.
.
.
.

Do you mean Jesus as spirit or Jesus as physical, flesh and blood? Because if the latter-if he had a flesh and blood body from before the Garden Of Eden-why would he have needed to be born of a virgin etc? I always understood there to be a veil of some sort (be it mist, burning bush or whatever) between God and whoever he was talking to. Also the Bible seems pretty clear that it's God they're talking to, not (using the example of Moses) the Holy Spirit appearing as a burning bush.

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by pfw

Do you mean Jesus as spirit or Jesus as physical, flesh and blood? Because if the latter-if he had a flesh and blood body from before the Garden Of Eden-why would he have needed to be born of a virgin etc? I always understood there to be a veil of some sort (be it mist, burning bush or whatever) between God and whoever he was talking to. Also the Bible seems pretty clear that it's God they're talking to, not (using the example of Moses) the Holy Spirit appearing as a burning bush.

Jesus pre-incarnate.. before He put on flesh.. He could for sure do what the angels themselves did, come to earth in human form. Jesus was not Jesus till He was born of a virgin.. before then He was the Word.. He was the Lord.. He was the Angel of the Lord who wrestled with Jacob...

Exodus 6:2 And God spoke to Moses and said to him: "I am the Lord. 3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name YHWH (or Jehovah) I was not known to them.

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by pfw

Do you mean Jesus as spirit or Jesus as physical, flesh and blood? Because if the latter-if he had a flesh and blood body from before the Garden Of Eden-why would he have needed to be born of a virgin etc? I always understood there to be a veil of some sort (be it mist, burning bush or whatever) between God and whoever he was talking to. Also the Bible seems pretty clear that it's God they're talking to, not (using the example of Moses) the Holy Spirit appearing as a burning bush.

well the bible does not get specific, i would say physical body just as angels can appear physical and people mistake them for other people. he needed to born to a virgin because that was the prophecy, that was the reason to call out a group of people and have the messiah born thru a certain bloodline. i also believe that jesus was born a child so that his vulnerability and humbleness as an infant yet he is being worshipped as a king, speak of the way god works--making small things great, and the way the hidden things of god are displayed thru his son. the jew first, gentile second also tells why jesus was born to the jews, and they heard his message along with the prophets first.

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Jesus pre-incarnate.. before He put on flesh.. He could for sure do what the angels themselves did, come to earth in human form. Jesus was not Jesus till He was born of a virgin.. before then He was the Word.. He was the Lord.. He was the Angel of the Lord who wrestled with Jacob...

i agree.

[pfw]

Thanks to Faithfulservant and Blaznfattyz for two concise and easy to understand answers (and both saying the same thing which helps) to my question. 1 more question (but I don't promise to go away and stop asking any more...) Faithfulservant equates him with 'the angel of the Lord' who wrestels with Jacob- If I'm remembering the story of Abraham correctly he seemed to be a bit 'argumentative' with God- for example when God told him he was going to destroy Soddom & Gommorah Abraham argued the point of 'what, the rightious as well?'-til God eventual sent in the angels and got Lot and his family out (I can't resist a 'pass the salt' joke-sorry :-)), then when he willing went (we don't hear of an argument) to sacrifice Issac God 'stops him' by sending The Angel Of The Lord- I'd always thought God was a little unhappy that Abraham hadn't argued like before-was this angel also Jesus (cos I don't think he was talking to Jesus before). (I'd thought part of the point of Abraham's story was he didn't just want 'yes men', he wanted people who'd think and challenge Him back and was upset that when he faced his biggest personal challenge he just 'caved in', didn't argue for his own son were he had for strangers in S & G)??? (hope that's clear)

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by pfw

Thanks to Faithfulservant and Blaznfattyz for two concise and easy to understand answers (and both saying the same thing which helps) to my question. 1 more question (but I don't promise to go away and stop asking any more...) Faithfulservant equates him with 'the angel of the Lord' who wrestels with Jacob- If I'm remembering the story of Abraham correctly he seemed to be a bit 'argumentative' with God- for example when God told him he was going to destroy Soddom & Gommorah Abraham argued the point of 'what, the rightious as well?'-til God eventual sent in the angels and got Lot and his family out (I can't resist a 'pass the salt' joke-sorry :-)), then when he willing went (we don't hear of an argument) to sacrifice Issac God 'stops him' by sending The Angel Of The Lord- I'd always thought God was a little unhappy that Abraham hadn't argued like before-was this angel also Jesus (cos I don't think he was talking to Jesus before). (I'd thought part of the point of Abraham's story was he didn't just want 'yes men', he wanted people who'd think and challenge Him back and was upset that when he faced his biggest personal challenge he just 'caved in', didn't argue for his own son were he had for strangers in S & G)??? (hope that's clear)

First off Angel is basically messanger.. Or one who is sent to speak of the will of God. We just equate it with winged beings.

It wasnt that God wanted Abraham to challenge Him He wanted to show a shadow of what is to come... His mercy and His grace.. this is a wonderful story that shadows the second coming of Jesus Christ and how the Lord does not appoint us to His wrath.

The situation with Isaac is another wonderful shadow of Jesus Christ.. The Father sent His son Jesus to be sacrificed for the sins of the world... If you read it again you will see that when Abrahams hand was stilled He said that God will provide for Himself a lamb which we know is Jesus Christ. The lamb was found in the bush.. supplied by God to be sacrificed..

Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said, "My son, God will provide for Himself the lamb for a burnt offering." So the two of them went together.


The Lord wanted to make an example of Abrahams faith.. Abraham was made righteous because He believed the Lord but you can read all throughout his story that He on many many occasions acted out of unbelief.. for example when he had a child with Hagar after the Lord told him that many generations would come from him.

God Bless

[Faithfulservant]

I wanted to add.. isnt is wonderful that God would use men that just couldnt help but mess up over and over... and He still does what He says He is going to do... He is faithful no matter how badly we mess it up

Jesus said all the prophets wrote about Him.

John5:46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me.

[Zagreus]

Mano, Spiritus, Lehdaio

[Dor]

Originally Posted by Zagreus

Mano, Spiritus, Lehdaio

And that has what to do with Christianity

[Zagreus]

Originally Posted by Dor

And that has what to do with Christianity

You tell me, Dor.