God is Triune

[Zagreus]

Thank you, Thomas ... at least you have tried. I do feel, somehow, that you have given it a more honest effort than in previous exchanges. It would be unfair of me to insist that you are being unnecessarily or intentionally obtuse, although how you can miss my point I am still not certain.

But yes indeed, I have tried to say that each world religion, or religious/spiritual philosophy, faith tradition, etc. is appropriate for the culture, nation or group of people under consideration ... while not yet in full possession of the Wisdom of God.

I would prefer if you did not insist on saying "YOUR Theosophy," since at least when speaking of Catholicism I do not say, "YOUR Catholicism," as if Thomas ___ cooked the whole thing up some Sunday afternoon when he was bored or on mushrooms. Indeed, at least I can acknowledge that Catholicism is a legitimate spiritual path, and whether as a petal of the Flower of Truth, or a spoke leading to the hub of the wheel ... I RESPECT your choice of Catholicism as a meaningful and valid PATH to Godhead.

Remember this one, Thomas? Where YOU presumed no less than what you accuse ME of presuming:

Originally Posted by Thomas

So you can categorically state that your understanding of all the world's spiritual traditions is so deep and so profound that there is nothing contained therein that escapes your critical faculties?

How else would you be able to judge Theosophy as anything less than a "valid path?

And no, I have a very elementary understanding. I just argue that it does not take a rocket scientist, or a philosophical genius, but rather, no more than a willingness, and an openness, to meet and embrace the Heart of the world's Religions - God's various invitations for mankind to seek out a deeper relationship with God. The finer points, the teachings of the Wisdom Religion found in all spiritual paths and missing from none, only gradually reveal themselves to us as we devote ourselves.

It will not be my words which indicate that "all people are Theosophists and just don't know it yet" ... or that eventually, everyone will convert to this way of seeing things. But Thomas, will you not make it so, all the while insisting that we are all just Catholics, not yet having come to this realization? Such you have said, more than once.


And again, I cannot more directly EMPHASIZE that Theosophy is not a religion per se, or even a specific corpus of teachings ... than to quote HPB, who was in this case quoting Montaigne, when she said - regarding her Secret Doctrine:

"I have here made only a nosegay of culled flowers,
and have brought nothing of my own but the string that ties them."

What part of "nosegay of culled flowers," and BROUGHT NOTHING OF MY OWN ... save the string that ties them ... don't you understand, Thomas?

And as for trifling over subsequent & subsistent relation, modalities of being, and nice, multi-syllabic words like phenomenological & noumenological ... I'm trying to take two steps back here, and ponder for a moment.

The best I can come up with at the moment, is Are you serious???

Thus ... Namaskara,

~zagreus

[cyberpi]

If God is Triune, then does each aspect of this Triune Godhead know everything that the other aspect knows?

[Silas]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

If God is Triune, then does each aspect of this Triune Godhead know everything that the other aspect knows?

Yeah, they're all in choots. Be thankful that you dont understand the Godhead's mystery. If you could understand God that wouldnt make him much of a God.

[Faithfulservant]

I actually think cyberpi was trying to trick you. Silas.. Because Jesus before resurrection stated that only the Father knew when He would return.. So Im going to answer it beforehand.. Jesus Christ is resurrected and in heaven with the Father.. Now He knows when Hes going to return because Hes outside of time and cahoots with the Father

[Silas]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

I actually think cyberpi was trying to trick you. Silas.. Because Jesus before resurrection stated that only the Father knew when He would return.. So Im going to answer it beforehand.. Jesus Christ is resurrected and in heaven with the Father.. Now He knows when Hes going to return because Hes outside of time and cahoots with the Father

Thanks! Isnt it good to be saved!?

[Faithfulservant]

yes! especially because I dont deserve to be.

its interesting.. the closer I am in my fellowship with the Lord.. the more I realize how little I deserve the grace given me.

[Silas]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

yes! especially because I dont deserve to be.

its interesting.. the closer I am in my fellowship with the Lord.. the more I realize how little I deserve the grace given me.

LOL! Yes, I know what you mean! Its a very humbling thing too!

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

I actually think cyberpi was trying to trick you. Silas.. Because Jesus before resurrection stated that only the Father knew when He would return.. So Im going to answer it beforehand.. Jesus Christ is resurrected and in heaven with the Father.. Now He knows when Hes going to return because Hes outside of time and cahoots with the Father

d'acord. he knew b4 being born as emmanuel, and he knew after being gloried back to heaven on the right hand of the father, because being god heaven he is outside our time and is all knowing. being half man he had to deal with some limitations here and there, whle other times he did the supernatural that only god could do.

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Silas

Yeah, they're all in choots. Be thankful that you dont understand the Godhead's mystery. If you could understand God that wouldnt make him much of a God.

Which part of loving God with all the heart, soul, and MIND is missing here?

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

I actually think cyberpi was trying to trick you. Silas.. Because Jesus before resurrection stated that only the Father knew when He would return.. So Im going to answer it beforehand.. Jesus Christ is resurrected and in heaven with the Father.. Now He knows when Hes going to return because Hes outside of time and cahoots with the Father

A trick? In an honest to God question? The only trickery is in how you explained away the verse by assuming those in heaven fully know everything that God knows, and yet you did not answer my question:

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

On both earth and in heaven there are some things that only one knows, for the time being.

[bananabrain]

sorry, just saw this:

Originally Posted by FaithfulServant

What would you consider Melchizedek then? He was a priest of the Most High G!D AND the king of Salem and He is certainly what we consider a "type" of Christ. He didnt have a geneology no parents to speak of and was a priest continually. I know that means something to ya'll.

the midrash (targum Jonathan, Ned. 32b, Mid. Ps. 76:3) says that melchizedek was actually shem, the son of noah. our tradition says that shem had a yeshiva (religious academy) which jacob also learned in (so he lived quite a long time by the sound of it. of course melchizedek was not actually jewish, nor was he a descendant of jacob, so the question of tribe doesn't enter into it. he was, in our terms, a "righteous noahide" who worshipped G!D before the Torah was given and had prophetic foreknowledge of the Temple rites (as he was king of salem, where the Temple would eventually be built.

i suppose we might understand the idea of being a priest "of the order of melchizedek" as being someone who is, independently of judaism, a worshipper of G!D and a follower of holy ways. it's an interesting concept as applied to non-abrahamic civilisations, because it implies that worshipping G!D can be done in many different ways even if one is not in receipt of an abrahamic Revelation. abram, here, honours him as a "kosher" priest (but not a jewish one - the word for priest, "kohen" is used both of joseph's father-in-law, potiphera and of jethro, neither of whom were jewish, although jethro is definitely a worshipper of G!D) because although abram is not yet officially jewish (because he has not yet received his new name) recognises that this is a valid form of worshipping G!D. actually the status of melchizedek is far more universal than christianity, unless of course the stated universalism of christianity is a way of implementing the melchizedek approach to religion.

interestingly, it is immediately after the melchizedek episode that abram receives a new name at the "covenant between the parts", where he gets a Revelation for the second time. his first (go to a land I will Show you) is a sense of mission and a confirmation there is Someone out there, the second is about the exodus and promised land and the third (after he circumcises himself) is when he has finally become jewish. we can therefore characterise melchizedek as the link between "three-faiths" monotheism and universal G!D-belief. abraham clearly learned this lesson because he sent the sons of keturah "to the east with gifts", traditionally understood to be the origin of Divine wisdom in the mysticism of the east.

however, i don't think this is the way you guys think of it. your approach will be based on psalm 110 where someone is described sitting at G!D's Right Hand and "of the order of melchizedek" - now, obviously this would be "christ" for you and, certainly, this is understood by us as being a davidic vision of the messiah, who certainly must be a king, but if he is also a priest, must be of "the order of melchizedek", in other words, not a regular priest, who would be a descendant of aaron from the tribe of levi, whereas the messiah would have to be from the tribe of judah. clearly these are not the regular duties of a cohen-priest in the Temple, but rather the duties of the king - i believe he had some cultic functions not to be confused with that of the high priest; he could for example sacrifice in the Temple.

Jesus said this ins Luke 24:44 "Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."

or what He said in the book of John "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me."

i'm sure you understand that i do not agree that although this might indeed refer to the messiah, it does not of course mean jesus to our way of thinking.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Prober]

WOW!!!

Thanks, BB. Much to digest. You've got me thinking...

In what book would this be found?

Thanks,
Mark

[bananabrain]

in various places, the "targum yonatan" (an aramaic translation/interpretation of the Torah), the babylonian talmud (nedarim 32b) and the "midrash on psalms".

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Prober]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

in various places, the "targum yonatan" (an aramaic translation/interpretation of the Torah), the babylonian talmud (nedarim 32b) and the "midrash on psalms".

b'shalom

bananabrain

Thanks B! Lots of reading to do.

Mark

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Prober

WOW!!!

Thanks, BB. Much to digest. You've got me thinking...

In what book would this be found?

Thanks,
Mark

I agree. Thank you BB for you detailed and interesting post.

luna

[Dondi]

BB,

It is interesting that in Ezekiel 44 and following chapters speaks of a prince. Of particular note is Ezekiel 46:17:

"And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel."

Does this speak of the Messiah?