God is Triune - Page 2

Zagreus · 02-03-2007, 09:50 PM

Here is an article, which may help. This is also relevant to the discussion on other threads about the Logos. We can see, too, what Abba means, when Jesus speaks of this (as the Father ... Abatur).

Plus, a connection with the River JORDAN can be seen.

Naturally, all of this presupposes that there were wise men before Christ Jesus, and God spoke to us in many a wise (ways) ...

... if that asks too much, we may pull the door fast, again. I, for one, have enjoyed reading the above article - for the first time - even if much of it is beyond me.

cheers,

Zagreus

Prober · 02-03-2007, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

The situation with Isaac is another wonderful shadow of Jesus Christ.. The Father sent His son Jesus to be sacrificed for the sins of the world... If you read it again you will see that when Abrahams hand was stilled He said that God will provide for Himself a lamb which we know is Jesus Christ. The lamb was found in the bush.. supplied by God to be sacrificed..

Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said, "My son, God will provide for Himself the lamb for a burnt offering." So the two of them went together.

God Bless

Don't you think it's cool that Isaac (Jesus) carried the wood?

Quahom1 · 02-03-2007, 10:57 PM

Jesus according to scripture, is the image of the invisible God. The Holy Spirit, is God in our lives...on a day to day basis. So, the obvious is that the Father through His Son has enacted His will and GRACE through the Spirit, upon man and the universe.

Have to laugh. When my father wanted to get to me (when we weren't talking), he enacted his thoughts to me via my mother, who depended on Jesus, to notify the Holy Spirit of God, to get my attention, and soften my heart.

It worked.

I now talk directly with my father (a microcosim of what man is supposed to be able to do with God the Father, from the beginning).

But it took a triune variation in order to get to me... (for that I am grateful).

v/r

Joshua

Prober · 02-04-2007, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Have to laugh. When my father wanted to get to me (when we weren't talking), he enacted his thoughts to me via my mother, who depended on Jesus, to notify the Holy Spirit of God, to get my attention, and soften my heart.

It worked.

I know what you mean. It's great when you pray for someone and wait for the Holy Spirit to work and then, like the wind, you see it!

I'm praying for someone now who may take a bit of work to reach. I'll have to wait and see...

Faithfulservant · 02-04-2007, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prober

Don't you think it's cool that Isaac (Jesus) carried the wood?

Nice! another one.. thanks prober

kenod · 02-05-2007, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

Plurality of God:

"‘I sent a plague among you after the manner of Egypt; I slew your young men by the sword along with your captured horses, and I made the stench of your camp rise up in your nostrils; yet you have not returned to Me,' declares the LORD. ‘I [Jehovah] overthrew you as God [Elohim] overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah...'" - Amos 4:10-11

"Then the LORD [Jehovah] rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD [Jehovah] out of heaven." - Gen 19:24

"Thus says the LORD [Jehovah], the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD [Jehovah] of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God [Elohim] besides me...‘" Isa 44:6

Are you saying that you think "LORD" (Jehovah) means Jesus, and that "God" (Elohim) means the Trinity?

.

Thomas · 02-05-2007, 04:34 PM

It is axiomatic that the Revelation of the Trinity, which is the interior life of God, is not accessible to reason nor logic, by virtue of the fact that man cannot understand God fully, all we can understand (or try to) is what God reveals of Himself to us.

Therefore once the Trinity was made known, by the Incarnation of the Son, man can look back upon his sacred texts and 'see' the evidence therein, he is enlightened, or illumined, but it is wrong to suppose that the Jews could have arrived at a doctrine of the Trinity from their own sacred texts.

Christ said "I and the Father are One" and also "the Father is greater than I" – and together each renders the other either wrong, or illogical ... so that Jesus was either lying, or mistaken ... or He was signifying a Mysery.

In such fashion the Doctrine of the Trinity is never stated explicitly in Scripture, but it is implicit; it is more than simply a 'solution' to the question of the Divinity of the Son, it is a disclosure of the Interior Life of God and it is on this basis that we say 'God is Love' ... not that love is something that God does, but that love is something that God is ... everything flows from that ...

+++

It should be pointed out that God is Three and One; that the Trinity is not something that 'came about' with the Incarnation, but always was, is, and will be ...

Thomas

pfw · 02-05-2007, 05:03 PM

And then you've got the Pagan 'goddess'- the 'maid', 'mother' and 'hag'-ok so I'm probably using the more modern terms but you know the one I mean- who is ONE goddess with THREE 'aspects' (what those aspects represent are immaterial to this argument). This particular goddess has been around a little bit longer than any reference to the Abrahanic God (she even shows up as The Fates in Greek myth). While I don't doubt the 'three fold nature of God', can anyone else see the similarity between this godess and the Trinity? Is it not possible that the trinity is just a blending in of this idea to make Christianity more apealing to the pagans that were hanging around at the time? Because an interesting point is the trinity is open to the Mormon interpritation/mistaken belief of three seperate gods, wereas the 'three fold nature of God' would far more stubbonly resist such an interpritation. That's just a thought-Thomas, feel free to tear it to shreeds :-)

Silas · 02-05-2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenod

Are you saying that you think "LORD" (Jehovah) means Jesus, and that "God" (Elohim) means the Trinity?

.

I was just showing the obvious plurality in God. Check out Gen 19:24 for instance:

"Then the LORD [Jehovah] rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD [Jehovah] out of heaven."

There are two distintive persons being discussed in that verse and the others I mentioned. "The LORD rained fire and brimstone "from the LORD."

By the way, you're right..."To live is Christ!"

BlaznFattyz · 02-05-2007, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

I was just showing the obvious plurality in God. Check out Gen 19:24 for instance:

"Then the LORD [Jehovah] rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD [Jehovah] out of heaven."

There are two distintive persons being discussed in that verse and the others I mentioned. "The LORD rained fire and brimstone "from the LORD."

By the way, you're right..."To live is Christ!"

you are quite right. both the son and the father share the name Yahweh and the glory, because they are the same God.

mee · 02-05-2007, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

Christ said "I and the Father are One" and also "the Father is greater than I" – and together each renders the other either wrong, or illogical ... so that Jesus was either lying, or mistaken ... or He was signifying a Mysery.

Thomas

YES One in unity of purpose , and Jesus was right the father is greater than he is , the bible is never illogical when the correct meaning is applied . and we dont need trinity doctrines to have an accurate understanding of what the bible means . it all makes sense to me .

mee · 02-05-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

you are quite right. both the son and the father share the name Yahweh and the glory, because they are the same God.

psalm 83;18................John 3;16 i like to read the bible it tells us what we need to know.

Thomas · 02-05-2007, 07:53 PM

And then you've got the Pagan 'goddess'- the 'maid', 'mother' and 'hag' - ok so I'm probably using the more modern terms but you know the one I mean - who is ONE goddess with THREE 'aspects'

Sorry, but that's modalism – the error which posits that God is a single person who has revealed Himself in three modes, or forms.

Is it not possible that the trinity is just a blending in of this idea to make Christianity more apealing to the pagans that were hanging around at the time?
No, I don't think so ... a study of patristics will show the development of the doctrine as the fruit of intense and sustained theological inquiry. As a public relations exercise, Trinity and Christology were not very effective – the Arian Dispute would suggest that.

The teaching of Christian love, and the distinction between eros and agape, made a much bigger impact.

Because an interesting point is the trinity is open to the Mormon interpritation/mistaken belief of three seperate gods, wereas the 'three fold nature of God' would far more stubbonly resist such an interpritation.
Oooh, I'm happy to leave the Mormons to the Historical-Critical method, but you are right, the doctrine is open to all manner of misinterpretation. Islam for example believes the Doctrine of the Trinity promotes tritheism.

The central point is, it is a Mystery that is beyond explanation. As someone said this weekend, 'the trouble with the Trinity is you can't talk about it for more than five minutes without wandering into heresy'. Even St Patrick's famous shamrock analogy very quickly gets into dangerous ground.

Anything that can be said can only ever be analogous, and as soon as you follow the analogy to its next logical step, you're probably wrong.

Thomas

pfw · 02-05-2007, 11:18 PM

That's logics one big weakness- used on it's own you can 'prove' just about anthing you want. As a wise man once said (Mr Spock in one of the Trek movies);'Logic is only the begining of wisdom, not the end.'

Prober · 02-05-2007, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfw

That's logics one big weakness- used on it's own you can 'prove' just about anthing you want. As a wise man once said (Mr Spock in one of the Trek movies);'Logic is only the begining of wisdom, not the end.'

He also said "...if everyone has their own personal Hell, mine can't be worse than anyone else's".