God, gender and women's place in abrahamic religions

[heaven_id]

If God is not male or female then Jesus Christ should tought us to call God as 'our Parent in heaven'And truly i tell you by the blood of Jesus that God is MALE.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by heaven_id

Could be Jesus Christ wrong in teaching? cause i never heard about the 'feminime' side of God in heaven.

Nope you haven't. Just my opinion and thoughts.

v/r

q

[namesdontmatter]

Peace and blessings of God be upon you, InquisitiveInHalifax

Originally Posted by InquisitiveInHalifax

So, why is it that in these monotheistic/abrahamic religions women seem to be below men?

Islam, for one, puts women equal to men. Different in their respective roles, but equal all the same.

In reading one of the other threads someone had mentioned that in the Koran it says that men may have as many wives as they are able to support and limitless concubines. This hardly seem fair to the women, does this not make them sexual objects?

Muslims are allowed 4 wives, assuming they are able to support them and treat them with respect. The woman, however, also has a word in whether or not her husband takes a second wife. This may sound odd to westerners, but I have seen families that work, in which a man has multiple wives.

Getting back on topic, I'd like to explain my view on why God is portrayed as a man in the religions of the world. A simple answer is that that is how He revealed himself.

If you take a look at almost any culture on the planet, the man is characterized as being: stronger, faster, and hardier than women (generally speaking of course). This is not an insult to the gender, but a fact. The man sustains the woman, protects the woman, and often times guides the woman. I know that this is how it is with my wife and I.

Ask yourself this:
If you were scared, walking down a dark street wherein menacing shadows make your hair stand on end, would you rather have a woman at your side? Or a man?
If you were having troubles with your bills and felt lost as to how you were going to make it to the end of the month, is it a man or a woman you would ask for assistance?
If you needed answers to questions you did not know, would you go to a man for guidance, or a woman?

I think the answers to these questions are why most religions place their God as a male. While God is best for a protecter, a guide, and a sustainer, a man is the next best thing for a woman.

I hope I haven't offended anyone. I have tremendous respect for the female gender, but I recognize that their role in this life is different from that of a man.

--Would a rose, by any other...?

[Quahom1]

[quote=namesdontmatter]Peace and blessings of God be upon you, InquisitiveInHalifax

Islam, for one, puts women equal to men. Different in their respective roles, but equal all the same.

The religion may, but some of the people who follow it do not. Therefore they do not follow Islam.

Muslims are allowed 4 wives, assuming they are able to support them and treat them with respect. The woman, however, also has a word in whether or not her husband takes a second wife. This may sound odd to westerners, but I have seen families that work, in which a man has multiple wives.

Scripture says Man, "love your wife". And Scripture says Woman "Respect your husband". My thinking is if you are respecting your wife, instead of loving her (big difference in the western world), that might be a cause for the problems (not that the women of the west know how to respect their men anyway proper, nor that the men know how to love the women anyway proper).

Getting back on topic, I'd like to explain my view on why God is portrayed as a man in the religions of the world. A simple answer is that that is how He revealed himself.

If you take a look at almost any culture on the planet, the man is characterized as being: stronger, faster, and hardier than women (generally speaking of course). This is not an insult to the gender, but a fact. The man sustains the woman, protects the woman, and often times guides the woman. I know that this is how it is with my wife and I.

Which is very fine for you and she. Make no mistake about this.

Ask yourself this:
If you were scared, walking down a dark street wherein menacing shadows make your hair stand on end, would you rather have a woman at your side? Or a man?
If you were having troubles with your bills and felt lost as to how you were going to make it to the end of the month, is it a man or a woman you would ask for assistance?
If you needed answers to questions you did not know, would you go to a man for guidance, or a woman?

I think the answers to these questions are why most religions place their God as a male. While God is best for a protecter, a guide, and a sustainer, a man is the next best thing for a woman.

You've set yourself up for a fall my friend. In the west, the woman can kick ass (if so trained). If the woman is educated in the ways of money, then I would go to her, before I went to a family member who had no clue.

If I had questions to issues pertaining to man, I would go to a man, and if the issues pertained to a bad or failing relationship with my woman, I would go to a man (the wisest man I could find). That one is beyond reproach.

I hope I haven't offended anyone. I have tremendous respect for the female gender, but I recognize that their role in this life is different from that of a man.

There will come a time, when you are in error, and a woman you "respect" will stand up to you and say you are in error. Will you accept the role change then?

I ask, because I have learned the hard way, never underestimate your mate.

v/r

Q

[Silverbackman]

Originally Posted by InquisitiveInHalifax

If there is only one true God of what gender is he/she? I believe that if there is only one true God that he/she must be above gender. So, why is it that in these monotheistic/abrahamic religions women seem to be below men? In reading one of the other threads someone had mentioned that in the Koran it says that men may have as many wives as they are able to support and limitless concubines. This hardly seem fair to the women, does this not make them sexual objects? Possessions even? It seems to me that there is a lack of balance here. I'm sorry if I offended anyone or misquoted the Koran, it is not my intention. This is truly troubling to me.

Without reading any of the other posts I can answer this question right away. Abrahamic religions for the most part no different than any other religion (except Eastern Faith). Is God male? Of course he is not, God for one is not being or an object, he is an idea or a thought. God ain't female either. No way in hell.

Religions that make God into a superhuman-like creatures are false, that is just far too primitive. It is okay to personify God, as long as you know you are speaking metaphorically.

In my belief, I refer to one of the two aspects of God as "Her" and the other aspect of God "Him". This is okay as long as you don't get cought up with God being a man or a woman, this force/idea/philosophy we call God is not some mythological being!

Now don't get me wrong, I am no feminist who thinks that men and women are exactly the same every way blah blah blah. I do actually think it is better for women to pursue traditional roles as they work the best (such as a full time mom and homemaker) but this is apart of our physical reality, not our spiritual reality. These two are totally different things.

Abrahamicism uses fear tactics to keep their number of adherents high. If there was no stupid "worship Jesus or go to hell" doctrine Abrahamic religions would be at the status of mythology.

God is not a simple concept, He/She is the most complex concept in this entire universe and the only way to find God is to to search for him yourself (through science and meditation), not by following rigid dogma with blind faith.

No offense to any Abrahamics.

[Silverbackman]

NOW THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT THE BIBLE OR QURAN COULD NOT BE USED AS AN ETHICAL SYSTEM. Some might say women giving their husband the leadership powers and the husband having the final say does work the best. There is nothing wrong with any of this but we cannot get past the fact here that God is not some simple object we can expain by calling Him/Her a man or a woman. God couldn't care less! God doesn't care if you put your trust in some wise man from the past named Jesus, he cares whether you live a good spiritual life under Him.

[namesdontmatter]

Honestly, are you just arguing with me because I'm speaking from a Muslim point of view? Aruing just to be arguing? Or do you believe that God is a female?

When I asked those questions, I was speaking to a woman, though it intrigues me. Would you take a woman as a protector, as a provider, and as a guide? In almost every society I've come to known, you would be asked, "What kind of a man are you?" Womens' roles are different, but equally if not more important. Remember that the prophet Muhammed (peace and blessings be upon him and his family) said that your heaven lies under the feet of your mother, meaning that service to your mother can lead to heaven.

In my experience (I -do- live in America, so don't pull any of that 'it's different in the west' stuff) women need men to be their protectors, providers, and guides.

Are you among those who believe that 'equal' means they have the same roles in society, home life, and elsewhere?

There will come a time, when you are in error, and a woman you "respect" will stand up to you and say you are in error. Will you accept the role change then?

Nowhere did I say that I do not take advice from women. My questions regarding women as guides may have thrown you off.

Women do make good protectors, good providers, and good guides. My mother raised me and my three brothers all by herself. However, generally speaking, that is not their role in this life, and men are better at those things. If this is insulting, consider it that I am telling you that a football player is better at playing with a round ball with their feet, while a golf player is better at playing with a round ball with a club. Recognize it or not, it's there. God has made women for a specific purpose different from that of a man.

Doesn't it say in your Bible that men were created in God's image? Men are to be the sustainers, the providers, the guardians, and the guides to women, and women are to be our companions and helpers? I'm not sure if I'm quoting scripture or just the opinion of a Christian friend of mine, so maybe you can help me.

I hope I'm not getting too far off topic.
--Would a rose, by any other...?

[Silverbackman]

Dear Mr. namesdontmatter,

I agree with the Muslims view to a certain extent and agree women should have different roles in society. on women but is it really necessary to associate God with such humanly issues? I doubt God cares, it is up to us to care . This is a socio-political affair, not a spiritual one . This should a an ethical question no a religious one.

[Tao_Equus]

I cant believe some of the views I'm seeing expressed here. I'm sorely tempted to provide a link to this thread on a few womens rights groups and let them whip some of you into the 21st century.

[Silverbackman]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I cant believe some of the views I'm seeing expressed here. I'm sorely tempted to provide a link to this thread on a few womens rights groups and let them whip some of you into the 21st century.

Who says that all of these women's rights groups are in the 21st century? I think many of them (ot all) are stuck more in the 1960s (during the radical feminist movement).

[mansio]

God is neither male nor female, He is other.
It's our languages which are male, or better said male-oriented.
There's a good example when Namesdontmatter says that it's written in the Bible men were created in God's image. Of course "men" doesn't stand for the male, but for humans.

[taijasi]

My vote would be that for the next 100 years (heck, even the next 10!), we all agree to refer to G-d in the feminine. If G-d is truly beyond gender, then I'm sure she won't mind. By the way, SHE must be capitalized, too.

Next step - the Catholic Church, and every remaining holdout, must open its doors to and welcome women in the clergy. Enough of the angry, wrathful deity that insults our intelligence and blasphemes against the very concept of Loving, Forgiving, Compassionate ...

I figure, if you cannot picture Deity in the feminine, then you do not know Deity at all.

protokletos

[taijasi]

Shazam ... I think some folks might find the following article interesting, which I stumbled upon just 5 minutes ago as I was looking for something else entirely.

It is by the Reverend Kathleen Damewood Korb, entitled `Dangerous Visions' - http://uunaples.org/sermons/050129.htm and I believe it is particularly relevant to this thread.

protokletos

[namesdontmatter]

Originally Posted by taijasi

Originally Posted by taijasi

Next step - the Catholic Church, and every remaining holdout, must open its doors to and welcome women in the clergy. Enough of the angry, wrathful deity that insults our intelligence and blasphemes against the very concept of Loving, Forgiving, Compassionate ...

I don't think your church will be doing that any time soon, unless they're planning on going all the way with claiming that the bible isn't completely accurate.

Behold:

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection, but I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

-1 Timothy 2:11, 2:12

Mansio,
If God created man in His image, why wouldn't it say mankind in the bible?

Answer: Because according to the bible, women were created from men. Mankind as we know it today didn't exist when God created man in His image. Women came later.

Not that I believe all that is written in the bible.

--Would a rose, by any other...?

[heaven_id]

Behold:


Quote:
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection, but I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

-1 Timothy 2:11, 2:12

That isn't Jesus Christ teaching, that was Paul's.