God and Life on Mars

QueryGuy · 04-13-2004, 05:57 AM

Question: If irrefutable signs of life were one day found on Mars (either living or in fossil form) how would this effect your theology?

My answer: It would only strengthen my belief in God. It would mean to me that life cannot be as much of a cosmic accident as some atheists believe. It is an implicit part of my own theology that God really does exist and that he has a master plan. Finding extra-terrestrial life would be truly exciting, because it would mean God's plan is, without doubt, even bigger than humanity itself.

QG

Vapour · 04-13-2004, 08:10 AM

huh. I think your wishiful thinking is leting you to skip logic. Whichever way it its, it doesn't prove anything about the existene of God.

I, Brian · 04-13-2004, 08:16 AM

Life is as universal a process as the formation of crystals, or the effects of gravity, and the passage of light through a vacuum. To imagine in anyway that life was entirely and solely expressed on this one planet of rock and water, in a universe of billions of galaxies, have perhaps refused to face the extensive realities and possibilities of the universe.

IMO.

So, indeed - I would find it theologically and scientifically illogical to believe that life were only to have existed here on earth.

On saying that, though, NASA has a rather unhealthy obsession with pushing the "life on Mars" issue. I fear that there is far more marketing than grounded realism in a lot coming out of their press releases.

QueryGuy · 04-13-2004, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

On saying that, though, NASA has a rather unhealthy obsession with pushing the "life on Mars" issue. I fear that there is far more marketing than grounded realism in a lot coming out of their press releases.

Perhaps so, but it's still fun to contemplate.

Vapour · 04-14-2004, 11:14 PM

as of life in other planet, I'm more of a sceptic.

I, Brian · 04-15-2004, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapour

as of life in other planet, I'm more of a sceptic.

Why, though?

Do you disbelieve that salt crystals exist on any toher planets out there?

If not, why do you suppose that life is so unique to the earth and the earth only? IMO there is no logical basis for such a belief.

Vapour · 04-15-2004, 06:35 PM

well, if creating life is just simple matter of mixing salt crystal, why can't the best scientist create life in laboratory. I'm quite sure, eventually, they will. But that make it obvious that the high statistical odd of something similar being duplicated in natural condition. Last time I checked, it was the case that more we know about life, more condition we disover which have to be satisfied.

Oh, but this doesn't say anything about the existence of God either. It is just matter of statistical probability and it did happen once. This happening twice is far more unlikely.

I, Brian · 04-15-2004, 09:56 PM

I don't understand why you consider it a matter of statistical probability that life should only be a single chance event in a single chance location?

Vapour · 04-17-2004, 09:22 PM

Universe is vast and there are *infinite* possibility is an argument used for this. I often reply that in this case could there be a planet which happen to have someone who looks exactly like me with the same name. Obviously no one would think that even supposedly, the possiblity is *infinite*. Obvioulsy, particluar personality/character is something statisitically so unique that it is just inconcevable to comtemplate that it is happening again.

I'm just pointing out that universe is not finite and certain statistical *outcome* is rather unlikely to be duplicated. I'm sure open to possiblity but I'm thinking more in term of statistical possiblity rather than possibility of wishful thinking.

I, Brian · 04-17-2004, 10:35 PM

Yes, but isn't there a distinction between a physical process of the universe, and the actual physical properties of an individual structure?

Somehow the argument that life does not exist elsewhere in the universe seems like arguing that thelaws of physics will not apply on other planets.

Also - the notion of our being entirely unique on this planet seems primarily sourced through Biblical beliefs, does it not?

Vapour · 04-17-2004, 11:06 PM

I think lot of people have misconception that creation of life is like mixing several ingredients in a cup and heating it. Well, what I'm saying that when something have to occur in right *process*, the potential of something like that occuring naturally become extremly unlikely.

Let compare that with cooking curry. Not only all the ingridients have to be there, these ingrideints have to be prepared, then put it in right *order* at the right heat. Say, what is the chance of curry being cooked naturally? Pretty close to zero. What is the chance of onion accidentally chopped to pieces, then somewhat chicken been skined and gutted, and somewhat, all the required spices being present and then a forest fire which just happent to cook the curry with right temparature?

Currently, the science is yet be able to create life from scratch even in laboratory condition. The indication is that rather ridiculously difficut conditions have to be met for something like that to occur. I think people who publicise the possiblity of life in other planet tend to imply that life is like a chemcal experiment one did in a school. You put few ingridients and puff. They are either ignorants or deliberately deciving other people and possibly themselves.

Just contemplate the probability of Chicken Tika Masara being cooked naturally in a forest in Java. Life naturally occuring is far more unlikely than that.

The life is unlikely to exist in other planet exactly because the physical conditions require for spontaneous emergence of life appear to be hard. Oh, and let not forget. Not only the life have to occur, the planet environment have to remain such that life can be sustained.

Shih Yo Chi · 04-18-2004, 02:18 AM

I'm sure I'm stealing this quote, but I don't know from whom.

"If life exists only on earth, that would be a terrible waste of space."

Surely God is not wastefull.

bananabrain · 04-28-2004, 12:12 PM

we've certainly discussed this. it doesn't present a problem for us, largely because we consider the vast majority of our own sacred Texts to apply to us alone. people are people are people - this only causes a problem if you're a literalist.

b'shalom

bananabrain

I, Brian · 04-28-2004, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapour

Currently, the science is yet be able to create life from scratch even in laboratory condition. The indication is that rather ridiculously difficut conditions have to be met for something like that to occur.

I'm curious - has speciation been properly demonstrated in the lab?

oscar · 05-22-2004, 04:50 PM

I don't want to make another link here, but if you go to HINDUISM you'll see a lot of references to possible life on Mars. This -I believe- is linked to hyperdimensional beings.

04-13-2004, 05:57 AM	#1 (permalink)
QueryGuy A guy who's Baha'i Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 34	God and Life on Mars Question: If irrefutable signs of life were one day found on Mars (either living or in fossil form) how would this effect your theology? My answer: It would only strengthen my belief in God. It would mean to me that life cannot be as much of a cosmic accident as some atheists believe. It is an implicit part of my own theology that God really does exist and that he has a master plan. Finding extra-terrestrial life would be truly exciting, because it would mean God's plan is, without doubt, even bigger than humanity itself. QG

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04-13-2004, 08:10 AM	#2 (permalink)
Vapour General Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 101	huh. I think your wishiful thinking is leting you to skip logic. Whichever way it its, it doesn't prove anything about the existene of God.

04-13-2004, 08:16 AM	#3 (permalink)
I, Brian Soul Rebel Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Highlands of Scotland Posts: 4,598	Life is as universal a process as the formation of crystals, or the effects of gravity, and the passage of light through a vacuum. To imagine in anyway that life was entirely and solely expressed on this one planet of rock and water, in a universe of billions of galaxies, have perhaps refused to face the extensive realities and possibilities of the universe. IMO. So, indeed - I would find it theologically and scientifically illogical to believe that life were only to have existed here on earth. On saying that, though, NASA has a rather unhealthy obsession with pushing the "life on Mars" issue. I fear that there is far more marketing than grounded realism in a lot coming out of their press releases.

04-14-2004, 11:14 PM	#5 (permalink)
Vapour General Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 101	as of life in other planet, I'm more of a sceptic.

04-15-2004, 06:35 PM	#7 (permalink)
Vapour General Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 101	well, if creating life is just simple matter of mixing salt crystal, why can't the best scientist create life in laboratory. I'm quite sure, eventually, they will. But that make it obvious that the high statistical odd of something similar being duplicated in natural condition. Last time I checked, it was the case that more we know about life, more condition we disover which have to be satisfied. Oh, but this doesn't say anything about the existence of God either. It is just matter of statistical probability and it did happen once. This happening twice is far more unlikely.

04-15-2004, 09:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
I, Brian Soul Rebel Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Highlands of Scotland Posts: 4,598	I don't understand why you consider it a matter of statistical probability that life should only be a single chance event in a single chance location?

04-17-2004, 09:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
Vapour General Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 101	Universe is vast and there are infinite possibility is an argument used for this. I often reply that in this case could there be a planet which happen to have someone who looks exactly like me with the same name. Obviously no one would think that even supposedly, the possiblity is infinite. Obvioulsy, particluar personality/character is something statisitically so unique that it is just inconcevable to comtemplate that it is happening again. I'm just pointing out that universe is not finite and certain statistical outcome is rather unlikely to be duplicated. I'm sure open to possiblity but I'm thinking more in term of statistical possiblity rather than possibility of wishful thinking.

04-17-2004, 10:35 PM	#10 (permalink)
I, Brian Soul Rebel Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Highlands of Scotland Posts: 4,598	Yes, but isn't there a distinction between a physical process of the universe, and the actual physical properties of an individual structure? Somehow the argument that life does not exist elsewhere in the universe seems like arguing that thelaws of physics will not apply on other planets. Also - the notion of our being entirely unique on this planet seems primarily sourced through Biblical beliefs, does it not?

04-17-2004, 11:06 PM	#11 (permalink)
Vapour General Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 101	I think lot of people have misconception that creation of life is like mixing several ingredients in a cup and heating it. Well, what I'm saying that when something have to occur in right process, the potential of something like that occuring naturally become extremly unlikely. Let compare that with cooking curry. Not only all the ingridients have to be there, these ingrideints have to be prepared, then put it in right order at the right heat. Say, what is the chance of curry being cooked naturally? Pretty close to zero. What is the chance of onion accidentally chopped to pieces, then somewhat chicken been skined and gutted, and somewhat, all the required spices being present and then a forest fire which just happent to cook the curry with right temparature? Currently, the science is yet be able to create life from scratch even in laboratory condition. The indication is that rather ridiculously difficut conditions have to be met for something like that to occur. I think people who publicise the possiblity of life in other planet tend to imply that life is like a chemcal experiment one did in a school. You put few ingridients and puff. They are either ignorants or deliberately deciving other people and possibly themselves. Just contemplate the probability of Chicken Tika Masara being cooked naturally in a forest in Java. Life naturally occuring is far more unlikely than that. The life is unlikely to exist in other planet exactly because the physical conditions require for spontaneous emergence of life appear to be hard. Oh, and let not forget. Not only the life have to occur, the planet environment have to remain such that life can be sustained.

04-18-2004, 02:18 AM	#12 (permalink)
Shih Yo Chi New Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 26	I'm sure I'm stealing this quote, but I don't know from whom. "If life exists only on earth, that would be a terrible waste of space." Surely God is not wastefull.

04-28-2004, 12:12 PM	#13 (permalink)
bananabrain Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: London, UK, Malkhut she'be'Assiyah Posts: 1,409	we've certainly discussed this. it doesn't present a problem for us, largely because we consider the vast majority of our own sacred Texts to apply to us alone. people are people are people - this only causes a problem if you're a literalist. b'shalom bananabrain

05-22-2004, 04:50 PM	#15 (permalink)
oscar Interfaith Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 13	I don't want to make another link here, but if you go to HINDUISM you'll see a lot of references to possible life on Mars. This -I believe- is linked to hyperdimensional beings.