Global Warming Watch - Page 7

cyberpi · 10-05-2007, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

how exactly is that?

I could see their darkness and reflective value a problem vs. soil or foilage, but put on a tar roof I'd say they minimize that...and in the US most electrical plants are coal or oil so they'd be reducing the increased need for more plants...

'splain yoself.

I'm in your neck of the woods for a few days... a bit south in Easton.

Well... what is a greenhouse? It lets solar energy in, the energy is used or stored, converted to heat, and the heat is somewhat trapped. A solar cell accomplishes the same thing. It takes solar energy in, converts it to electricity, and darn near every electric appliance is air cooled and does not evaporate water. Perfect greenhouse. If the planet were covered with solar cells it would bake it like an electric oven. Why?

It is like a house... if you turn on any appliance in a house, even the refrigerator, it will heat the house up. So if you put solar cells on top of the house and power anything inside of the house... you will be heating up the house. Make sense?

The reason the planet would bake is a little more deceptive... basically the atmosphere is somewhat insulative at lower temperatures just like the walls and roof of the house. When sunlight hits things like pavement, roof tops, or cars, it heats them up above atmospheric temperature. Being hotter, those things are going to radiate heat with a stronger and different EM frequency distribution. They will radiate faster and better into the night sky than something at room temperature. In the night the pavement, the roof top, and the car often cool below the atmospheric temperature. So in a desert for example where there is low water it might be very hot in the day, but it is also going to be colder at night. There are more extreme temperature differentials between day and night in a desert (low water) than say some place like Seattle where there is a stronger water cycle... the temperatures are milder in Seattle.

So my point is that even in a desert there is ample cooling by radiative cooling. Rather than just heat the atmosphere up, the solar targets re-radiate the energy right back into space. In a desert there is wasted energy. A solar cell in the desert is going to harness that energy. As you harness that energy instead of heating up the ground hotter than atmosphere, it will instead heat up the atmosphere. That lesser atmospheric temperature is harder to expel off the planet than the energy that was absorbed by the hot sand, (pavement, rooftop, etc...) and then jettisoned unused into the night sky. By using the energy with a solar cell, we've increased the background atmospheric temperature... which is harder to get out of the house.

So how do we use energy AND cool the house? To cool a house requires A/C or a swamp cooler and good air flow, right? Well, how does the A/C work? It works by alternating the phase of Freon (or water), for example, between a gas and a liquid. The Earth's water cycle is identical. If you want to cool the house, you need to drive the Freon cycle. If you want to cool the planet, you need to drive the water cycle. The problem is, nothing a solar cell is going to power is going to really drive the water cycle. People don't use electricity that way... they don't cool their computers by evaporating water for example. Using a solar cell is like turning on the oven in the house... is that going to heat up the house or cool it down? Put solar cells on the roof of a building... you will be contributing to global warming. I kid you not.

Plant trees on the roof of a building... then you will be contributing to global cooling, removing CO2 from the atmosphere, and storing and preserving energy delivered by the sun for future use. Plants evaporate water and thus drive the Earth's A/C. Solar cells and whatever they power... do not.

cyberpi · 10-05-2007, 04:25 AM

On the flip side of the coin... here is a way that the world could immediately have a major impact on global warming (help cause global cooling). Re-design the radiator of cars, industrial processes, and A/C's... to evaporate water into the atmosphere. The more water that a car evaporates the GREENER it is. If anything desalinates or evaporates dirty water... even better. I kid you not. Ship the dirty water to the desert climates and let the cars and the land there evaporate it. THEN you will be putting the Sun's energy to use into cooling the planet... powering up the planet's A/C... which is the water cycle.

In fact anyone who uses an A/C can make it more efficient and save electricity by adding a mister that sprays water into the fan and heat exchanger. Similarly a car is made more efficient (burn less fuel) with less air drag by designing the radiator to capture less air flow, but to evaporate water for cooling.

Lets think about this... a human and an animal needs water more regularly than it needs food... yet we've designed everything from appliances to industrial equipment to run only on food. Ooops!

flowperson · 10-08-2007, 11:55 PM

And now ladies and gentlemen... let us join together in a big round of hearty applause and let us yell "huzzah!" for our brother and sisters in the UK for doing the "right" thing. Nature needs to have some balance restored to her realm. This is a great example of what can be done collectively to do so.

flow....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7030298.stm

flowperson · 10-18-2007, 09:31 PM

And now ladies and gentlemen, put your hands together again for...of all the improbable recipients of kudos on this thread...yes folks...THE UTILITY COMPANIES. YAYYYYY !! YEAHHHH !!

* Of course they'll just probably turn around and build nuke plants instead.*

flow....

http://my.earthlink.net/article/bus?...10181872437441

Muslimwoman · 10-19-2007, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowperson

let us yell "huzzah!"

HUZZAH!

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowperson

And now ladies and gentlemen, put your hands together again for...of all the improbable recipients of kudos on this thread...yes folks...THE UTILITY COMPANIES. YAYYYYY !! YEAHHHH !!

Boo, hiss (I bet it is more about the construction costs than any concerns about global warming so no yayyy from the cynic in black).

Muslimwoman · 10-19-2007, 01:20 AM

Have yo read anything about this Flow?

The Great Global Warming Swindle from Channel4.com

They basically 'edited' scientific data in such a way as to suggest global warming was nothing to do with human activities. So far 37 scientists have complained about misuse of data and interviews.

flowperson · 10-19-2007, 04:11 AM

MW...Salaam
I think the makers of the documentary have been posting on this thread from time to time. No I hadn't heard about this, but it's not surprising to me considering that the media is totally about money and not truth or ethics if the amounts remanded are sufficiently obscene....expect more of it I'm afraid.

flow....

flowperson · 10-21-2007, 10:44 PM

Hello everybody...I just thought i'd send y'all a postcard and show y'all where our water comes from out here in the great western desert of the U.S.A.

Hey...the future's so bright I gotta wear shades !

flow....

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/21/ma...21water-t.html

Muslimwoman · 10-21-2007, 11:21 PM

OMG Flow, quick hide bottles of water in the cellar/attic/under the bed just in case. Give it 20 years and we can compare what life is like in a desert with no water. Have you got camels over there?

flowperson · 10-22-2007, 12:24 AM

Nope...no camels that I've seen. Some humpback people though.

I already drink all of my water out of bottles (distilled... for a medical condition). So I'm ok there until there's no money left.

Since the Nile is not a "snowmelt" river i might be over there sooner rather than later.

flow....

Muslimwoman · 10-22-2007, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowperson

Since the Nile is not a "snowmelt" river i might be over there sooner rather than later.

flow....

Until you saw the water - ICK & YUK. If a tourist falls in they are taken to hospital 'just in case'.

Water RESOURCES -~

flowperson · 10-22-2007, 02:35 AM

Interesting site MW...But a noticebale lack of participation by the Americas, most of Africa, Aussies/NZ, and the EU and northern tier countries across eurasia. Is it mostly a Brit -Asia thingy ? Nothing on the Nile that I saw, not to mention the Congo, Zambesi, etc. What kind of world thing is that with half of more of it missing ? just asking.

flow....

flowperson · 10-23-2007, 10:21 PM

Here's an excellent article on the status of the global emission levels of carbon dioxide. What a good idea it was for the U.S.A., China, and India not to sign the Kyoto accords...huh ?

flow....

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science...missions_N.htm

wil · 10-23-2007, 10:54 PM

Namaste Flow,

few items...from this non scientific type...

isn't it carbon monoxide that is created when something burns? Carbon dioxide created mostly created by human/animal respiration? and good for plants?

Haven't I read that the variations of carbon dioxide and monoxide found in contained Antarctic ice from millenia past vary much more widely than today's levels??

Lastly haven't we been taught never to trust any global warming chart that starts at 1850 since that was the end of the last mini ice age hence provides only part of the picture and a completely biased one at that??

Plus all this stirring could cause folks to take action which may decrease the sea level from rising which will negatively affect my land speculation for future waterfront properties....

Muslimwoman · 10-23-2007, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowperson

Interesting site MW...But a noticebale lack of participation by the Americas, most of Africa, Aussies/NZ, and the EU and northern tier countries across eurasia. Is it mostly a Brit -Asia thingy ? Nothing on the Nile that I saw, not to mention the Congo, Zambesi, etc. What kind of world thing is that with half of more of it missing ? just asking.

flow....

Hmm wrong link - woops. See if this goes to the right place:

Edit - no it doesn't work. Damn is a really good report, will try to find i somewhere else. Sorry.

(note to self, when posting links check them after posting them)