Global Warming Watch

[flowperson]

Here's an article that explains changes in geographic reality that are already underway due to the accelerating climate changes.

flow....

Climate Change Redraws World Maps | LiveScience

[Muslimwoman]

Oh my goodness Flow, Lake Chad reduced by 95%

I am so grateful I am not going to be around in another century.

[wil]

It appears these lake issues are not man made global warming issues but man made water use issues. We not only dam the rivers that feed the lakes creating other lakes and clean electricity for the people, but also divert the water and take the water from the lakes to provide water to the people and irrigation for crops and livestock to feed the people.

So yes, we have this dilemma, most of which stems from over population, but population control is out of the question remember. We have extreme poverty, malnutrition and starvation, but if we make ways to employ and feed the people we increase pollution, and use more water and in turn increase population....

Here in the states as we our political races are heating up the politicians are going to fix the problem of both poverty and starvation in our poorest neighborhoods and the increasing prevelance of obesity that is in the exact same neighborhoods..

[Snoopy]

One in four mammal species could be extinct within 50 years, largely as a result of human actions.
It warns that humans are to blame. Urbanisation, agriculture, deforestation and hunting all cause loss of habitat - the biggest danger to plants and animals....

...Climate change is also thought to be an increasing threat....

One species in four 'could be gone in 50 years' - Telegraph

s.

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Nice half-science you talk there Cyberpi. True, water vapour is the most voluminous greenhouse gas. That's where you assertion of facts end.

I'd say less than half... most my understanding comes from God. Open any chemistry or physics book up... all processes proceed to a state of lower energy or of greater entropy. Therefore anything that is living here requires: 1. A source of energy. 2. A means to dissipate entropy. Global warming is a problem of the latter (2)... and not the former (1). The media pseudo-science you and MW know is based on the understanding of the former (1). Getting rid of entropy requires expending energy and I'd be happy to throw a few textbooks at any alleged scientist who says otherwise.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Given your posts only concern appears to be what affects America I think I will take the liberty of saying your type of selfish thought processes are those typical of American head in the sand and screw the world ideology espoused by your current murderous leaders. Hey but you've got God on on your side right Crap.

None of my posts are concerned only for what affects America... what does America have to do with Global warming? I'm not the one generalizing and judging a single country. Are you? In the USA I have never personally seen any group suggest that God was personally opposed to the people of another country... so your exclusionary beliefs relative to God are your own. Don't pass them off as mine.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I know it is difficult for some Americans to conceive the possibility that "bigger" is not always "better". So it is with water vapour. Try and understand that. CO2, Methane and Ozone concentrations are glibly dismissed by you as being a lie!!

No... they are not a lie. They are simply not the cause and neither are they the solution.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

That is not burying your head in the sand that's getting buried in way up over you're ass. To dismiss the made made emissions of 7000million tons of "unsinkable" new carbon into the atmosphere each year as irrelevant is the saddest kind of folly.

Carbon is sinked and recycled... what made the hydrocarbon in the first place? Every carbon atom in my body was once in a plant or tree... and I'm not even a vegetarian. If you don't like carbon in the air then increasing the water cycle will help remove it.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

This causes over 2 W/m2 Radiative forcing which in turn causes a rise in humidity equilibrium and thus more water vapour in the atmosphere.

What frequency? To the contrary... carbon in the atmosphere helps diminish sunlight and reduces radiative forcing. It is seen both in the global dimming and in the decrease of pan evaporation rates. If I put a carbon roof with carbon insulation over my head it will keep me cooler in the day and warmer at night, but I will get less sunlight as a result.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

The rise in atmospheric carbon dictates water vapour levels and to believe anything else you are refuting every climate study group on the planet, maybe with the exception of some American Bush/God backed bullshitters.

That would be the most ridiculous generalization that I have ever seen on CR. Your science is also wrong.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Millennia ago the middle east was a bountiful garden but as the mean temperature of the region rose it's humidity fell.

I don't know what happened millennia ago, but more probable as the humidity fell, the temperature rose.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

This was not man made temperature changes but caused by fluctuations arising naturally at the end of the last period of glaciation. Apart from the mean temperature rise the main cause for this fall in humidity is the Himalayas. This metaphorical brick wall causes moisture laden air from the Pacific to dump all its water on its eastern flanks and only dessicated dry air ever reaches west of the range. The energy produced to power the storms that travel west over the Atlantic finds its strength in the humidity produced by the vast region of rainforest in Africa that transpires huge quantities of water vapour into the atmosphere.

So men were not part of the equation millenia ago. Today they are. You believe that you can balance the equation one way... I know that is must be balanced by another.

The metaphorical brick wall you describe is not a brick wall. Increase the transpiration over the Atlantic, North Africa, and Middle East and it will all blow East.

Hurricanes in the Atlantic do not find their strength from African rainforests. They find their strength from water temperatures in the Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico. Those storms cause massive evaporation that can be had by other, more productive means.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

If, as you were naively/grandiosely suggesting, we were to find some way to increase this transpiration it would have to completely cover the Atlantic, (lest it actually increase the power of the storms hitting the Americas from that direction).

False, False... and False.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I note you do not suggest piping seawater over the great plains of the USA. I smell nationalistic fascist disregard for all but your own. At least I now know unequivocally where you stand.

Your attempt to generalize and insult via your nose appears comically canine to me. Am I suppose to laugh or to cry with your unequivocal conclusions?

[flowperson]

Yawn !

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Your suggestion was that I am not honest, which I find rather offensive.

I am suggesting that determining what country you refer to when you say 'my country' or 'we', has become more difficult. With me there is no uncertainty.

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

And I would expect you to learn that the process you have been discussing is a naturally occurring one. The planet cannot simply absorb as much as we can throw at it.

What we throw comes from the planet... and the energy by which we throw came from the temperature difference between the sun and outer space.

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

The process you are talking about dos occur, so I go back to my issue of our countries tearing down trees at an unsustainable rate. One hand of your argument says use more fuel, the trees will absorb it and naturally create more rainfall which is needed, while the other hand is ignoring the rate at which we are destroying the very thing that your argument relies upon.

If a bit of land is green I don't care how big the trees is. Bigger is better... but not much better. If I cut down a tree or wipe my ass with one then I should probably plant two just in case.

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

The argument of 'we will just plant some more trees' simply doesn't wash. We are not planting trees at the rate we are tearing them down. Those that we plant cannot grow quickly enough to sustain our current outputs of polutants. And natural forests act quite differently to man made ones.

If you've understood the paramount importance of trees to control and reverse global warming then I'll simply pass on your side arguments.

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Up to 30% of greenhouse gases are caused by deforestation, how do you propose we plant enough trees and grow them quickly enough to absorb these emitions? Trees release their carbon when felled and burned, so we are killing the very thing that protects us.

I eat the carbon from plants that I kill, I poop the carbon, I exhale the carbon... I surely must be killing the very thing that protects me?! Or, do I plant a new crop and do it all over again?

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

I am sorry but I do not accept that the answer is to burn more fuel and rip down more forests.

Awe... well, the fuel that I propose needs to be burned to reduce global warming is taken directly from the sun. Trees are grown in the process... not destroyed.

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Our governments and corporations are driven by greed, that is the issue we need to deal with.

False... governments and corporations are driven by people, many of which do NOT make decisions based on greed, as you have wrongly assumed and pre-judged.

[flowperson]

Yawn...again !

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

I am suggesting that determining what country you refer to when you say 'my country' or 'we', has become more difficult. With me there is no uncertainty.

False... governments and corporations are driven by people, many of which do NOT make decisions based on greed, as you have wrongly assumed and pre-judged.

Well I am not going to apologise for being well travelled!!

You say there is no uncertainty which country you come from but I have to wonder which planet you come from if you think corporations and governments are not driven by greed.

Would you like to discuss your Presidents links to the Bin Laden and Saud families (or does oil not make a profit for him)? The Iraqi war has created a 25% profit for corporations but perhaps you would argue this is purely a humanitarian war and nothing to do with greed? Or maybe we could discuss the corporations that make millions of dollars profit per hour but contribute nothing to humanitarian or environmental global issues? This is the planet I live on!

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Well I am not going to apologise for being well travelled!!

Who asked you to apologize for anything?

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

You say there is no uncertainty which country you come from but I have to wonder which planet you come from if you think corporations and governments are not driven by greed.

Greed is an individual's motive but it seems you are out to convict large groups of people for their relationships as if greed is their driving principle to work, to work together, and to work for someone for mutual benefit. Any corporation is a potentially hired servant, and a government is a public servant, and the individuals who work within those groups also serve and learn from the relationship. Is it truly greed for people to have faith in each other and to serve one another? Why don't you judge your husband for greed the next time he wants to have sex? Or when he asks you to do something for him? Or when he bribes you with new shoes and a box of chocolates? Because if you succeed with judging or convincing someone that you know that they are greedy for asking you to do something for them, or greedy for doing something for you... then perhaps you have a chance of convincing me that the large groups of people who you don't even know are really just serving each other to satisfy their own greed. But if not, then I believe that your generalized character judgments of others will serve harshly against you for your lack of faith in others. It is like a single person scorning families or monogamous couples for being greedy... only to miss out on positive relationships altogether. Maybe with some individuals or groups of people greed is their motivation in working for others... but... maybe not.

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Would you like to discuss your Presidents links to the Bin Laden and Saud families (or does oil not make a profit for him)? The Iraqi war has created a 25% profit for corporations but perhaps you would argue this is purely a humanitarian war and nothing to do with greed? Or maybe we could discuss the corporations that make millions of dollars profit per hour but contribute nothing to humanitarian or environmental global issues? This is the planet I live on!

... your accusations of the US government helps Global Warming how? Maybe we can find a more suitable thread under politics to discuss these topics that you'd really rather be discussing.

[wil]

The town council of Stoke-on-Trent, England, approved plans in July for a 21-foot-tall metal-sculpted tree to highlight the virtues of its public nature park, but first, 20 real trees would have to be cleared away, and then, to prevent injuries in the darkness, 38 lights would illuminate the structure. [Daily Telegraph (London), 7-30-07]

And in August, organizers of an environmental awareness festival on Magic Island near Honolulu proposed to the city to relocate about 15 shade trees to accommodate the brief surge of visitors expected, leaving, according to a civic group, a "hot, shadeless area" uncomfortable for future parkgoers. [Honolulu Star-Bulletin, 8-24-07]

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

then perhaps you have a chance of convincing me that the large groups of people who you don't even know are really just serving each other to satisfy their own greed.

Perhaps you and I have a different definition of the term greed? The following demonstrates how greed can effect the environment, as well as peoples lives:

FREEPORT


(sorry did a reply with many examples but it got lost in cyber space somewhere, maybe it will turn up later)

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Perhaps you and I have a different definition of the term greed? The following demonstrates how greed can effect the environment, as well as peoples lives:

FREEPORT


(sorry did a reply with many examples but it got lost in cyber space somewhere, maybe it will turn up later)

Do you seriously think that anything you dig up written from anywhere, out of anyone's mind, about anyone, proves that companies and governments around the world are driven by greed? I can find individuals and organizations around me wherein members have acted out of greed. I can also find individuals and organizations all around me wherein members act out of mutual or even selfless interest for their neighbor.

You are married? I am convinced now that people act out of greed when having sex. Afterall... greed is the motivator for marriage. Having kids is harmful to both the body and the environment... and yet people still have kids for their own greed of having sex. I'll dig up some article from somewhere that cites an example of greed in marriage and surely proves that greed is the foundation of marriage and sex. We have to combat this greedy institution of marriage as it produces children who clearly destroy the environment. I'll dig up an article that cites an example of this too... and thus prove that having sex and thus children is bad for the environment. If people stop having children it will prevent Global warming! It will cure the environment! We must stop the obvious greed behind marriage and behind sex... to save the environment.

Relative to the article you have produced to judge someone as being greedy... here is another article about them that sheds a little different light about their relationship with the Amungme tribe: BusinessWeek

[flowperson]

The mythological statement of the mythological character Gordon Gekko in the 80's that, "greed is good" aside...I thought that the below link might shed some light within this ongoing discussion.

flow....

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/15/bu...e& ei=5087%0A

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Do you seriously think that anything you dig up written from anywhere, out of anyone's mind, about anyone, proves that companies and governments around the world are driven by greed?

Ah I forgot that I have to have been a personal witness to anything I have an opinion for or it doesn't count- silly me for forgetting. I wonder how courts ever find a criminal guilty unless the judge was a personal witness to the crime?

Originally Posted by cyberpi

We must stop the obvious greed behind marriage and behind sex... to save the environment.

From the sounds of that rant you have already started the process and as I am unable to have children that is two of us, so we just need to convince the other few billion people on the planet and we have solved all the worlds problems.

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Relative to the article you have produced to judge someone as being greedy... here is another article about them that sheds a little different light about their relationship with the Amungme tribe: BusinessWeek

Here is an extract from the article you provided the link for. Please note that Freeport have been there since the late 60's and are only now 'aspiring' to improvements - hell are they just slow learners or was protecting all that profit their main concern up until now?

No wonder Freeport is campaigning hard to improve its image. The energetic Moffett has staked his reputation on it. Freeport's strategy is to convince local residents and Western activists that it is addressing their concerns. Moffett even vows to cut the Papuans a bigger piece of Freeport's $1.9 billion in annual revenues. ''It's our responsibility to ensure that the local people benefit from our presence,'' said Moffett, who agreed only to provide written answers to questions. ''Our aspirations are to develop relationships based on honesty, equality, and justice.''

So up until now their relationships have been based on what in your opinion?