Glad to be veggie

I, Brian · 08-27-2003, 08:44 PM

No, I'm not a moralistic vegetarian. Although I do abhor the industrial farming of animals, it's simply my personal opinion and life-style choice

But - yuck - as if Britain hasn't already learned how to regulate it's meat industry properly - especially after BSE (Mad Cow Disease), and Foot and Mouth - incidents like this are hardly going to make people rush out for their sunday roast.

Essentially, the gist of the story is that for more than 6 years a group of men were re-selling chickens labelled unfit for human use, processing in an area infested with rats and sometimes even sewerage - then then reselling the chicken products to hospitals, schools, and supermarkets.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/n...re/3184925.stm

Man convicted in 'unfit' meat trial

A man has been convicted of conspiracy to defraud over the sale of thousands of tonnes of condemned meat to leading supermarkets, schools and hospitals.

Peter Roberts, 68, of Francis Street, Chaddesden, Derby, was found guilty at Nottingham Crown Court on Wednesday.

He was tried in his absence having failed to appear at court.

A second man, Brian Paul Davies, 37, of Moor Road, Holcombe, Bury, Greater Manchester, was cleared of conspiracy to defraud.

It is alleged that businesses in Derbyshire, Northamptonshire and Buckinghamshire were involved in the operation.

The jury was still deliberating on verdicts against three other men when they were sent home on Wednesday afternoon and will resume deliberations on Thursday morning.

The remaining men, who all deny conspiracy to defraud, are: Simon Haslam, 39, of Shalfleet Drive, Derby; Brian William John Davies, 64, of Walmersley Road, Bury; and David Watson, 38, of Paxton Crescent, Shenley Lodge, Milton Keynes.

'Unfit poultry' allegation

Judge Richard Benson has asked the jury to consider majority verdicts after 27 hours of deliberations.

The prosecution claim Denby Poultry Products Ltd, based in Denby, Derbyshire, had been a pet food processor, but was at the centre of the nationwide scam between 1995 and 2001.

Ben Nolan QC, prosecuting, said more than a million pounds in weight of unfit poultry was supplied into the human food chain during that time bringing in £836,000.

The court heard workers trimmed chicken and turkey carcasses to resemble legitimate food at a run-down factory, which was infested with rats and polluted with pools of sewage.

Mr Nolan said wholesalers who bought poultry from Denby supplied meat to organisations including Sainsbury's, Shippam's Pastes, Tesco, and Islington Borough Council.

wil · 04-27-2006, 02:57 PM

Not a veggie....eat fish a couple times a week, cheese a few or more, and eggs occasionally...no hooves or wings though..

I was a hunter and first quit eating storebought meats...due to industrial farming techniques...only ate what got in front of my gun or if I knew its name and fed it myself.

Haven't hunted now for almost 20 years...and quit eating meats other than fish as of 13 years ago...

Any others out there that have reduced meat consumption??

and for what reasons?

lol when I told a doc I was considering quitting meat...as I had two friends in their 60's (I was in my 20's) who had heart disease and were told to quit.. He said, "Why, your not sick yet..." That was the last time I ever saw the inside of that office...

truthseeker · 04-27-2006, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Not a veggie....eat fish a couple times a week, cheese a few or more, and eggs occasionally...no hooves or wings though..

I was a hunter and first quit eating storebought meats...due to industrial farming techniques...only ate what got in front of my gun or if I knew its name and fed it myself.

Haven't hunted now for almost 20 years...and quit eating meats other than fish as of 13 years ago...

Any others out there that have reduced meat consumption??

and for what reasons?

lol when I told a doc I was considering quitting meat...as I had two friends in their 60's (I was in my 20's) who had heart disease and were told to quit.. He said, "Why, your not sick yet..." That was the last time I ever saw the inside of that office...

I know what you mean, Wil.

I have reduced my meat consumption to maybe once or twice a week. I love the taste of beef, I must say, so I probably eat a little fillet mignon maybe once every other month or less. I eat chicken or fish once or twice a week, and I have never been able to eat eggs and I have always been lactose intolerant so I stay away from dairy products most of the time (I love cheese so much!!) Every couple of years or so I'll go completely vegetarian maybe for about a year - usually ending that when the beef craving makes me a raving lunatic.

I can't say that I don't like meat, I just feel better when I don't eat it. But because I'm not on the tip top of my nutrition habits, I feel I need it for protein purposes.

Vajradhara · 04-27-2006, 08:45 PM

Namaste Brian,

how... disturbingly greedy of these beings. ewww...

you know... when i hear about this sort of thing and the dangerous mercury levels in fish and all of that... i, too, am glad that i'm a veggie.

though, i'm not so keen for all the pesticides and so forth.. as such, i try to eat organically grown food...

strange, isn't it, that food that actually has nutritional value is so bloody expensive and crap carbohydrate foods are dirt cheap.

metta,

~v

lunamoth · 04-27-2006, 09:07 PM

I'm not a vegetarian, but I appreciate all of the posts above.

Vaj, you are so correct about the expense of good food. The cost of fruit and fresh vegetables is killing me these days! Frozen (ungarnished, i.e., no sauces etc.) vegetables are not too bad price and nutrient wise, but they do not taste nearly as good unless you smother them with cheese, butter or salt (all of which are worse for me than a little lean meat).

Sugar or carbs products that also have a lot of fats and other additives are indeed junk, but the complex carbs in things like brown rice and beans are really good. Carbs are getting a bad rap these days with that awful Atkins/South Beach diet, but I think we humans are meant to get a lot of our calories as complex carbs. We're also meant to eat meat and fat, although we don't need nearly as much as we tend to eat. Fat is another thing that has gotten a bad rap lately, and now we find that the trans fats are so much worse than natural fats...sigh.

Balance in all things, and that includes diet! (says the moth as she sips on her cherry vanilla coke and dreams of cookies)

luna

wil · 04-27-2006, 09:07 PM

Namaste ~v,

I agree on the organic and due have concerns on the fish levels...and fish farming...and depletions of the sea...

but as pesticides and such reside in the muscle...and regulation on products for animal use are more lax than human...the carnivores take on a lot more chemicals and pesiticides thru meat eating then veggies do even eating non organic!

not that we want them...

a friend of mine says...if a bug won't eat it why should we!

Vajradhara · 04-28-2006, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste ~v,

I agree on the organic and due have concerns on the fish levels...and fish farming...and depletions of the sea...

but as pesticides and such reside in the muscle...and regulation on products for animal use are more lax than human...the carnivores take on a lot more chemicals and pesiticides thru meat eating then veggies do even eating non organic!

not that we want them...

a friend of mine says...if a bug won't eat it why should we!

indeed!

metta,

~v

Prober · 05-15-2006, 11:44 PM

HERE, HERE!

Weighing in for veggies (I'm one!).

To each his own. My philosophy - "seeing that all beings cringe in fear of death, therefore cause pain or suffering to come to none" (or something like that).

(And it's just better for you.)

flowperson · 05-16-2006, 12:17 AM

Every time I consider going off my regimen of eating neither beef or pork, which has been my habit for ten years or so, I pause to remember just how bad I feel when I eat it and it takes so long to digest. Then it is that I reach for a can of albacore, cook up some pasta and veggies with garlic oil, or make a salad. I do, however, succumb to chicken and turkey products and hard boiled eggs to get my proteins.

I also used to have lots of weird dreams and uneasy sleep quite often until I switched from regular milk to organic. The difference just that one thing has made in my daily life has been enormous.

peace...flow....

cavalier · 05-31-2006, 07:32 AM

I was brought up in a house where we had meat at least once a day, every day. Not only that, but the opinion of vegetarianism was that it is biblically unsound, obviously homosexual, just plain strange, and it would make me weak.

Those things have long since ceased to bother me, apart from the last one. I would worry about not getting enough, protein, and minerals.
That's one problem, another is that I love and adore the flavor of meat (I live in a country where meat sustitutes are not readily available) and I despise vegetables.

Would one of you advise me on how to healthily be meat free, and direct me to a website of good veggie recipies.

Thanks
Andy

I, Brian · 05-31-2006, 08:32 AM

I remember when I first tried going veggie I had the same problem - there wasn't much in the way of veggie products around - but since then the supermarkets here are filled with them, especially Quorn and Linda McCartney lines. Do you not get much like that where you are?

Vajradhara · 05-31-2006, 08:55 AM

Namaste cavalier,

the only real medical issue with being a vegetarian is that you will not get any b12 vitamin from your veggies and fruit so a good multivitamin is pretty important in maintaining the physical form.

if you can find it, the Quorn product that Brian mentioned is quite excellent. they have a wide variety of products and, in my view, has a very "authentic" texture and taste.

as for recipies.. i'm afraid that i don't know any websites off hand for that. generally speaking, we consume the same sorts of meals that we did when we consumed flesh. we simply substitute the flesh with the Quron or other product.

though, i must say, there is still quite a ways to go to get a fish product that tastes like fish. i have tried TuneNo and wasn't very impressed with it. i used to enjoy tuna salad quite a bit

metta,

~v

cavalier · 05-31-2006, 08:55 AM

It's not that you can't get it in Taiwan, just that I live in a rural part of the country.

Such is the rate of progress in this country though, I've no doubt it'll be everywhere in a couple of years.
I guess that doesn't help the hundreds of animals I'll eat in the intervening period though.

cavalier · 05-31-2006, 09:09 AM

Hey V

I guess we were posting at the same time. Thanks for the tip on the B12
It seems that with the meat substitutes, being a veggie is a piece of flavoured microprotein

wil · 05-31-2006, 12:21 PM

I've never been big on the meat subsitutes...

I guess I understand it for those who went veggie due to Docs orders and are meat lovers to heart...but fake bacon, sausage, hot dogs, hamburgers...I don't understand it...

Although we used to make falafanoff....using falafal balls in a quasi beef stroganoff mode...

Plenty of veggie dishes in almost all cuisines....chinese, indian, mexican, thai...so variety has never been an issue...tis all choice.

08-27-2003, 08:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
I, Brian Soul Rebel Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Highlands of Scotland Posts: 4,604	Glad to be veggie No, I'm not a moralistic vegetarian. Although I do abhor the industrial farming of animals, it's simply my personal opinion and life-style choice But - yuck - as if Britain hasn't already learned how to regulate it's meat industry properly - especially after BSE (Mad Cow Disease), and Foot and Mouth - incidents like this are hardly going to make people rush out for their sunday roast. Essentially, the gist of the story is that for more than 6 years a group of men were re-selling chickens labelled unfit for human use, processing in an area infested with rats and sometimes even sewerage - then then reselling the chicken products to hospitals, schools, and supermarkets. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/n...re/3184925.stm Man convicted in 'unfit' meat trial A man has been convicted of conspiracy to defraud over the sale of thousands of tonnes of condemned meat to leading supermarkets, schools and hospitals. Peter Roberts, 68, of Francis Street, Chaddesden, Derby, was found guilty at Nottingham Crown Court on Wednesday. He was tried in his absence having failed to appear at court. A second man, Brian Paul Davies, 37, of Moor Road, Holcombe, Bury, Greater Manchester, was cleared of conspiracy to defraud. It is alleged that businesses in Derbyshire, Northamptonshire and Buckinghamshire were involved in the operation. The jury was still deliberating on verdicts against three other men when they were sent home on Wednesday afternoon and will resume deliberations on Thursday morning. The remaining men, who all deny conspiracy to defraud, are: Simon Haslam, 39, of Shalfleet Drive, Derby; Brian William John Davies, 64, of Walmersley Road, Bury; and David Watson, 38, of Paxton Crescent, Shenley Lodge, Milton Keynes. 'Unfit poultry' allegation Judge Richard Benson has asked the jury to consider majority verdicts after 27 hours of deliberations. The prosecution claim Denby Poultry Products Ltd, based in Denby, Derbyshire, had been a pet food processor, but was at the centre of the nationwide scam between 1995 and 2001. Ben Nolan QC, prosecuting, said more than a million pounds in weight of unfit poultry was supplied into the human food chain during that time bringing in £836,000. The court heard workers trimmed chicken and turkey carcasses to resemble legitimate food at a run-down factory, which was infested with rats and polluted with pools of sewage. Mr Nolan said wholesalers who bought poultry from Denby supplied meat to organisations including Sainsbury's, Shippam's Pastes, Tesco, and Islington Borough Council.

04-27-2006, 02:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
wil UNeyeR1 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,649	Re: Glad to be veggie Not a veggie....eat fish a couple times a week, cheese a few or more, and eggs occasionally...no hooves or wings though.. I was a hunter and first quit eating storebought meats...due to industrial farming techniques...only ate what got in front of my gun or if I knew its name and fed it myself. Haven't hunted now for almost 20 years...and quit eating meats other than fish as of 13 years ago... Any others out there that have reduced meat consumption?? and for what reasons? lol when I told a doc I was considering quitting meat...as I had two friends in their 60's (I was in my 20's) who had heart disease and were told to quit.. He said, "Why, your not sick yet..." That was the last time I ever saw the inside of that office...

04-27-2006, 08:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
Vajradhara Mod ~ Eastern Thought Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Dharmadhatu Posts: 2,667	Re: Glad to be veggie Namaste Brian, how... disturbingly greedy of these beings. ewww... you know... when i hear about this sort of thing and the dangerous mercury levels in fish and all of that... i, too, am glad that i'm a veggie. though, i'm not so keen for all the pesticides and so forth.. as such, i try to eat organically grown food... strange, isn't it, that food that actually has nutritional value is so bloody expensive and crap carbohydrate foods are dirt cheap. metta, ~v

04-27-2006, 09:07 PM	#5 (permalink)
lunamoth In the Spirit Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: The Rockies Posts: 3,144	Re: Glad to be veggie I'm not a vegetarian, but I appreciate all of the posts above. Vaj, you are so correct about the expense of good food. The cost of fruit and fresh vegetables is killing me these days! Frozen (ungarnished, i.e., no sauces etc.) vegetables are not too bad price and nutrient wise, but they do not taste nearly as good unless you smother them with cheese, butter or salt (all of which are worse for me than a little lean meat). Sugar or carbs products that also have a lot of fats and other additives are indeed junk, but the complex carbs in things like brown rice and beans are really good. Carbs are getting a bad rap these days with that awful Atkins/South Beach diet, but I think we humans are meant to get a lot of our calories as complex carbs. We're also meant to eat meat and fat, although we don't need nearly as much as we tend to eat. Fat is another thing that has gotten a bad rap lately, and now we find that the trans fats are so much worse than natural fats...sigh. Balance in all things, and that includes diet! (says the moth as she sips on her cherry vanilla coke and dreams of cookies) luna

04-27-2006, 09:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
wil UNeyeR1 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,649	Re: Glad to be veggie Namaste ~v, I agree on the organic and due have concerns on the fish levels...and fish farming...and depletions of the sea... but as pesticides and such reside in the muscle...and regulation on products for animal use are more lax than human...the carnivores take on a lot more chemicals and pesiticides thru meat eating then veggies do even eating non organic! not that we want them... a friend of mine says...if a bug won't eat it why should we!

05-15-2006, 11:44 PM	#8 (permalink)
Prober Give Us This Day... Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,258	Re: Glad to be veggie HERE, HERE! Weighing in for veggies (I'm one!). To each his own. My philosophy - "seeing that all beings cringe in fear of death, therefore cause pain or suffering to come to none" (or something like that). (And it's just better for you.)

05-16-2006, 12:17 AM	#9 (permalink)
flowperson Oannes Join Date: May 2006 Location: SW United States Posts: 2,613	Re: Glad to be veggie Every time I consider going off my regimen of eating neither beef or pork, which has been my habit for ten years or so, I pause to remember just how bad I feel when I eat it and it takes so long to digest. Then it is that I reach for a can of albacore, cook up some pasta and veggies with garlic oil, or make a salad. I do, however, succumb to chicken and turkey products and hard boiled eggs to get my proteins. I also used to have lots of weird dreams and uneasy sleep quite often until I switched from regular milk to organic. The difference just that one thing has made in my daily life has been enormous. peace...flow....

05-31-2006, 07:32 AM	#10 (permalink)
cavalier Executive Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Taiwan Posts: 716	Re: Glad to be veggie I was brought up in a house where we had meat at least once a day, every day. Not only that, but the opinion of vegetarianism was that it is biblically unsound, obviously homosexual, just plain strange, and it would make me weak. Those things have long since ceased to bother me, apart from the last one. I would worry about not getting enough, protein, and minerals. That's one problem, another is that I love and adore the flavor of meat (I live in a country where meat sustitutes are not readily available) and I despise vegetables. Would one of you advise me on how to healthily be meat free, and direct me to a website of good veggie recipies. Thanks Andy

05-31-2006, 08:32 AM	#11 (permalink)
I, Brian Soul Rebel Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Highlands of Scotland Posts: 4,604	Re: Glad to be veggie I remember when I first tried going veggie I had the same problem - there wasn't much in the way of veggie products around - but since then the supermarkets here are filled with them, especially Quorn and Linda McCartney lines. Do you not get much like that where you are?

05-31-2006, 08:55 AM	#12 (permalink)
Vajradhara Mod ~ Eastern Thought Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Dharmadhatu Posts: 2,667	Re: Glad to be veggie Namaste cavalier, the only real medical issue with being a vegetarian is that you will not get any b12 vitamin from your veggies and fruit so a good multivitamin is pretty important in maintaining the physical form. if you can find it, the Quorn product that Brian mentioned is quite excellent. they have a wide variety of products and, in my view, has a very "authentic" texture and taste. as for recipies.. i'm afraid that i don't know any websites off hand for that. generally speaking, we consume the same sorts of meals that we did when we consumed flesh. we simply substitute the flesh with the Quron or other product. though, i must say, there is still quite a ways to go to get a fish product that tastes like fish. i have tried TuneNo and wasn't very impressed with it. i used to enjoy tuna salad quite a bit metta, ~v

05-31-2006, 08:55 AM	#13 (permalink)
cavalier Executive Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Taiwan Posts: 716	Re: Glad to be veggie It's not that you can't get it in Taiwan, just that I live in a rural part of the country. Such is the rate of progress in this country though, I've no doubt it'll be everywhere in a couple of years. I guess that doesn't help the hundreds of animals I'll eat in the intervening period though.

05-31-2006, 09:09 AM	#14 (permalink)
cavalier Executive Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Taiwan Posts: 716	Re: Glad to be veggie Hey V I guess we were posting at the same time. Thanks for the tip on the B12 It seems that with the meat substitutes, being a veggie is a piece of flavoured microprotein

05-31-2006, 12:21 PM	#15 (permalink)
wil UNeyeR1 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,649	Re: Glad to be veggie I've never been big on the meat subsitutes... I guess I understand it for those who went veggie due to Docs orders and are meat lovers to heart...but fake bacon, sausage, hot dogs, hamburgers...I don't understand it... Although we used to make falafanoff....using falafal balls in a quasi beef stroganoff mode... Plenty of veggie dishes in almost all cuisines....chinese, indian, mexican, thai...so variety has never been an issue...tis all choice.

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