ghosts amongst us?

[michaellangelo]

hi everyone!

i'v been talking to people recently about their beliefs regarding death and ghosts/spirits, and a lot of them hav experiences of what they think are people coming back to see them, spirits who live in their house etc, and iv been wondering what peoples opinions and views about this are..obvioulsy coming from a buddhist perspective.

do you believe spirits in the ghost realm live amongst the us etc ?

look forward to peoples replies

peace

[toujour_333]

well, the only thing as far as buddhism goes that mentions ghost that i know of (remember, im very new at all this, so im sure theres more) is the hungry ghost life. however, to me, it seems like more of a mindset rather than an actual existance, not that it couldnt be, but since i have yet to experience it that i can remember, i cant say for sure, ya know? but to me, the hungry ghost life seems to be like the mind of an addict. the mouth is so small and the stomach so big that no matter how hard they try, they can never get enough to fulfill their craving. however, one could say that we all go through that from time to time. but, i guess its all a matter of prespective. but, thats mine. however im sure that one of the more knowledgeable members on here might be able to shed some more light on the subject of the spirit realm as far as buddhsim goes. anyways, good luck and be well in peace.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste michaellangelo,

thank you for the post.

within the overall rubric of Buddha Dharma, there are beings which have taken a negative rebirth in one of the three unfortunate rebirths which we call the Hungry Ghosts. these are beings that are typified by greed and lust for material gain and one can see how this could be a fair description of mental states that a being may be dominated by.

that said, the Hungry Ghost realm intersects this realm and, as such, there isn't much of an issue with the idea of ghosts, per se, amidst the living beings within the overall auspices of Buddha Dharma.

the whole idea of rebirth is somewhat of a precise and easily confused teaching within the Buddha Dharma.. in a formal sense, there are 31 planes of existence which a being can take rebirth in.. in our conventional usage, we typically indicate 6 realms of rebirth

if you have an interest in the various rebirth realms and so forth, this may be of some interest:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/a.../wheel414.html


an excerpt:

Thirty-one Planes of Existence

• Four planes of the Immaterial Brahma Realm:
  • (31) Plane of Neither Perception-nor-non-Perception
  • (30) Plane of Nothingness
  • (29) Plane of Infinite Consciousness
  • (28) Plane of Infinite Space
• Sixteen planes of the Fine Material Brahma Realm:
  • 7 Fourth Jhana Planes:
    • 5 Pure Abodes:
      • (27) Highest (Akanittha)
      • (26) Clear Sighted (Sudassi)
      • (25) Beautiful (Sudassa)
      • (24) Serene (Atappa)
      • (23) Durable (Aviha)
    • (22) Non-percipient, matter only, no mind
    • (21) Great Fruit
  • 3 Third Jhana Planes:
    • (20) Third Jhana, highest degree
    • (19) Third Jhana, medium degree
    • (18) Third Jhana, minor degree
  • 3 Second Jhana Planes:
    • (17) Second Jhana, highest degree (Abhassara)
    • (16) Second Jhana, medium degree
    • (15) Second Jhana, minor degree
  • 3 First Jhana Planes:
    • (14) First Jhana, Maha Brahmas
    • (13) First Jhana, Brahma's ministers
    • (12) First Jhana, Brahma's retinue
• Eleven planes of the Sensuous Realm :
  • Seven Happy Sensuous Planes:
    • Six Deva planes:
      • (11) Control others' creations
      • (10) Rejoice in their own creations
      • (9) Tusita — Delightful Plane
      • (8) Yama
      • (7) Realm of the Thirty-three
      • (6) Catummaharajika — 4 Great Kings
    • (5) Human Beings
  • Four Lower Realms of Woe:
    • (4) Ghosts
    • (3) Asuras
    • (2) Animal realm
    • (1) Hell realms

metta,

~v

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

This may be off the subject....
But
What does "Namaste" mean?

[Vajradhara]

Namaste yo-eleven,

thank you for the post.

a bit off topic

Namaste is an ancient Nepali greeing (well, it is Nepal now at any rate) and is made with the palms pressed together and held in front of the chest. it is a bit difficult translate directly into English.. the best that i've heard is thus:

i bow to the divine in you. when you are in that place in you and i am in that place in me, there is but one of us.


naturally, i use it with a slightly different connotation

metta,

~v

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Namaste yo-eleven,

thank you for the post.

a bit off topic

Namaste is an ancient Nepali greeing (well, it is Nepal now at any rate) and is made with the palms pressed together and held in front of the chest. it is a bit difficult translate directly into English.. the best that i've heard is thus:

i bow to the divine in you. when you are in that place in you and i am in that place in me, there is but one of us.


naturally, i use it with a slightly different connotation

metta,

~v

kinda like what my avatar is doing?

[Vajradhara]

Originally Posted by YO-ELEVEN-11

kinda like what my avatar is doing?

similar, but with the fingers extended, like is oft dipicted as the "prayerful" hands.



metta,

~v

[RubySera_Martin]

I should mention first off that I don't know too much about Buddhism. I'm not sure if only Buddhists are supposed to respond or if anyone can give their take on this question. I identify more with Christianity but Eastern thought has contributed meaningfully to my way of understanding Christianity and I think all religions are expressions of God, or at least they are all human expressions of that which humans perceive to be beyond the sensual or material realm.

It is not unusual for me to sense the presence of Someone or Something "not of this world." Because of my strong Christian background--I grew up on pictures of angels and angelic hosts, I tend to see it in the form of angels. One time when I was going though extreme emotional stress, as I passed through a narrow hallway of the house I suddenly felt myself to be in a large airy place full of angels like in the pictures I'd grown up with.

It was neither stunning, nor overwhelming, nor frightening. Just comforting. Experiences of this type are rather common for me. Some say it's just an extension of the psyche, so I don't know. My guess is that Christianity's angels are the equivilent of Buddhism's ghosts or spirits. This derives from my belief that metaphysical reality does not vary so much in actuality as do the human expressions of it. I'm not saying I'm right in this because I don't know; it's just my idea on it.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste RubySera,

thank you for the post.

of course, your comments and views are welcome on this or any other subject within this area of the forum

would you agree that, generally speaking, angles are viewed as "positive" or "good" sorts of beings? ones that, generally, have a happy existence within the realm of Heaven?

if so, that wouldn't really be analgous to our hungry ghosts, since this is a "negative" sort of rebirth. they would be more like the immaterial beings called Devas, in our tradition.

metta,

~v

[RubySera_Martin]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Namaste RubySera,

thank you for the post.

of course, your comments and views are welcome on this or any other subject within this area of the forum

Thank you. I enjoy learning about other religions or ways of viewing that which is beyond our earthly existence and participating in discussion is one of the ways I learn best. So I appreciate this welcome.

would you agree that, generally speaking, angles are viewed as "positive" or "good" sorts of beings? ones that, generally, have a happy existence within the realm of Heaven?

Yes.

if so, that wouldn't really be analgous to our hungry ghosts, since this is a "negative" sort of rebirth. they would be more like the immaterial beings called Devas, in our tradition.

I was aware of this inconsistency between my story and the stories of the hungry ghosts. I was somewhat uncertain of the focus of the thread because the title seemed to be asking if there are ghosts among us yet the posts seemed to talk about some unkind spirits. Sometimes threads deviate from the original question.

My primary religious training took place in German, and we had only one word for spirit and ghost. In the Christian Bible angels are called ministering spirits. From that perspective my story seemed to fit the title. I guess I was just plain confused as to what the thread is about. I apologize for posting off-topic. It was not my intention. Thanks for clarifying.

[Jeannot]

I just bought a book, WE DON'T DIE, by Joel Martin about the medium George Anderson. Haven't read it yet, but the reviews on Amazon sound promising:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/042...lance&n=283155

[flowperson]

Anyone:

I would like to know if the conversations here that refer to "hungry ghost" beings might be identified as analogous to the demons that Jesus was so reknowned for "casting out".

And, might the elimination of such beings from the community be analogous to the mystical services performed by tribal "shamans" in ancient times ?

Any thoughts ?

flow....

[Vajradhara]

Namaste flow,

hmm.. well, demons are beings which inhabit the hellish realms and are not Hungry Ghosts, per se.

moreover, Buddhists are not (typically) engaged in the practice of banishing or "casting out" since hungry ghosts are not indwelling within other beings.

also recall that for the majority of Buddhists, the actual distinctions between these classes of beings is irrelevant. they are sentient beings and, as such, will take rebirth based on their karma.

realistically, the Christian paradigm lists three classes of supranormal beings, angels, demons and God. Buddhism really doesn't have a direct correlation with these concepts though we can, perhaps, be close enough for an easy discussion of such, in my view.

metta,

~v

[flowperson]

Namaste Vajradhara !

Leave it to us Christians to categorize the dimensions of spiritual beings and then say that there may be only three and no more ! That sort of attitude always gives everyone more reason for conflict IMHO.

I agree that the Bhuddist approach seems more civilized and realistic, since we are all just places on a spectrum of spiritual realities. It makes more sense to me that our remaining spiritual selves would also tend towards that sort of interpretation.

Another question for anyone. Do you believe that this compulsive desire of some believers to identify, label, or categorize everything in an attempt to seemingly impose order upon a naturally disordered world is something that we all have inside of us; or, do you believe that it is a learned behavior that has come over the millenia with the civilizing tendencies of our communities ?

flow....

[Vajradhara]

Namaste flow,

i think that is a very good question and you should start a new thread for it as it may well be overlooked on this particular subforum.



metta,

~v