Genesis 3:3-4

[LeoSalinas22]

hi bananabrain,

it was the serpent that lied and told them that they would be "like G!D" -

me and muslimwoman were talking about this on another thread, actually and want to see what you think about this. you see the serpent in a sense didn't lie for it is written in the KJV:
Psalms 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
in the tanach it is written:
Psalm 82 God stands in the congregation of God; in the midst of the judges He will judge.
Psalm 82:6 I said, "You are angelic creatures, and all of you are angels of the Most High."
Judges 16:31 And he judged Israel twenty years.
now, if Samson was a judge, and the tanach replaces the word gods with judges and Samson was godlike or superhuman... just makes me wonder. know what i mean? should i take it easy and not think like a child and take everything literally? i mean is it me or is the scripture a prophecy of how mankind will be after the messianic age? please bear with me for i am only trying to understand this scripture since it is so mindblowing. hope to hear from you soon.

[17th Angel]

Why would you listen to what a snake said..... lol. What does he know, he's just a snake......

[bananabrain]

Originally Posted by Dondi

At the risk of hijacking this thread, assuming there was an afterlife (i.e. resurrection), would humans be mortal or immortal? Would we still be able to make choices? If we could, then we couldn't live in the Paradise?

i guess the argument i am making is that if you are not mortal, you are no longer really human. that's more of a philosophical point, which is what i believe is alluded to by the midrashic 600ft tall spiky hermaphrodite adam. the more logical point is that the edenic state is one of complete communion with the Divine, whatever we mean by that, but in that sense you are so much a part of the Divine that the concept of choice cannot be operative, because it presupposes sin, which is by definition the choice to do the *wrong thing*. by definition, of course, this is not possible as part of the Divine, therefore logically it seems to me that the edenic state must preclude choice, as we would effectively become similar to angelic beings.

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

Psalms 82:1 G!D standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

ok - you're having a translation issue. the hebrew is not as straightforward. i would read it as "G!D (E-LoHIM) stands in the congregation of G!D (E-L), judging in the midst of the mighty/princes/judges/important people/celestial beings (eLOHIM - with a "small e", as it were). this is a literary construction and could be taken to refer to our conception of a celestial "supreme court", where G!D acts as Chair.

Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

i would read it as "you are mighty/princes/important people/celestial beings (eLOHIM - with a "small e"), children of the Most High (E-LYON)".

incidentally, verse 7 (normally translated as "you shall fall like one of the [sarim] angelic princes") would not therefore refer to ha-satan or anything like that, but to the primordial adam who was first an angelic being, but then, in line with his choice to choose choice, became a human.

as you correctly point out, the word used of samson is also "judge" - ShoPheT - which is the same root as that used in ps 82:1: "YiShPoT". this bears out the "supreme court" imagery mentioned above.

i mean is it me or is the scripture a prophecy of how mankind will be after the messianic age? please bear with me for i am only trying to understand this scripture since it is so mindblowing.

i don't think it's a prophecy for the future, not at first glance (mind you i read this psalm every tuesday) but more of a cosmic description of How Things Are, if that makes any sense.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Dondi]

i guess the argument i am making is that if you are not mortal, you are no longer really human. that's more of a philosophical point, which is what i believe is alluded to by the midrashic 600ft tall spiky hermaphrodite adam. the more logical point is that the edenic state is one of complete communion with the Divine, whatever we mean by that, but in that sense you are so much a part of the Divine that the concept of choice cannot be operative, because it presupposes sin, which is by definition the choice to do the *wrong thing*. by definition, of course, this is not possible as part of the Divine, therefore logically it seems to me that the edenic state must preclude choice, as we would effectively become similar to angelic beings.

So the view in Judaism is that we would be like angels in an edenic state in the afterlife?

[bananabrain]

according to some sources. our view of the afterlife and the World-to-Come is aggadic - in other words, there is no one authoritative opinion, rather a plethora of recondite symbolic statements.

b'shalom

bananabrain