gematria

[lunamoth]

In the lib or lit thread in Christianity the topic of gematria was brought up. I am curious about this system. Is it "kosher," so to speak, or is it more related to New Age kabbalah stuff?

Apologies if any of the above inadvertantly offends.

gematria

curious,
lunamoth

[Dondi]

I'm rather curious about this myself, having recently seen PI. Is there some secret numbering system in the Torah?

[Thomas]

Hi both -

Gematria - the art of reading letters by the numbers ascribved to them, is an ancient art. There is Hebrew gematria, Greek gematria, Latin gematria ... English gematria. In my Hermetic days we had three levels of meaning for ever letter of the alphabet as well as numerical values attached to their meanings ... and so it goes on.

Take a look at http://www.meru.org which offers some intriguing views on the text of Genesis.

John 21:11 reads: "Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken."

According to Greek myth Zeus let fly two eagles from opposite ends of the earth, and they flew towards each other and met over the town of Delphi, and this point at which they met was thus determined as the centre of the earth. The point was marked by the Omphalos stone in the temple of Apollo. When Harmonia wove the Veil representing the whole universe, she started with the Omphalos stone at the centre and from there worked outward.

The number 153 has been demonstrated (in Alexandra magazine) to correspond to a mathematical diagram of the Veil of Harmonia.

If you look at this site http://asis.com/~stag/153list.html there are 1,717 refernces to the number 153!

The New Age loves it, of course, because of its mystique, but that's not to say there's nothing to it, not by a long way.

But it is a huge study.

Thomas

[China Cat Sunflower]

Gematria - the art of reading letters by the numbers ascribved to them, is an ancient art. There is Hebrew gematria, Greek gematria, Latin gematria ... English gematria. In my Hermetic days we had three levels of meaning for ever letter of the alphabet as well as numerical values attached to their meanings ... and so it goes on.

I progressed through an extended hermetic phase as well. That got me interested in kabbalah, but then my interest sorta evolved toward the Jewish end. But it's such a huge subject, and I kinda got to a point where I felt that I had hit a wall where unless I was going to really devote myself to it I had learned everything I could. I understand how people can devote their whole lives to the study of the Torah, but I have a lot of diverse interests and don't want to tie myself down to one thing at the expense of everything else.

All of that came before I had kids, and now that I do I find my greatest joy is in enjoying them and the pleasures of just living a good, simple life. I guess you might say I discovered a sort of epicurean enlightenment. I like good friends, good conversation, good food, playing my guitar, digging the zen in playing golf, and generally just being here in the moment.

Chris

[lunamoth]

Thanks to all who replied, here and in the other thread. Perhaps dauer and Bananabrain will have some info to share on this too...

peace,
lunamoth

[dauer]

Gematria, I forget the way it's put, but basically it can't prove something on its own. It can act as a support for something that has basis in some other system. I don't deal in gematria but I have been told that it is very easy for someone who is skilled in it to show relationships between different words. There's even gematria in a book I have supporting the blowing of the shofar on Rosh Hashanah when it coincides with Shabbos.

Inner.org, the site you linked to, is an authentic site for kabbalah and hasidut.

For me, the important thing when observing someone working with gematria, is the information being transmitted. That it is being transmitted via gematria doesn't concern me so much. But I think that by working in gematria the author can see relationships they might otherwise miss.

dauer

[bananabrain]

it's called asmakhta - means "support". in other words, first make your point and support it, then, if you like, gematria becomes a support to bolster your case.

also, you have to be good at the other stuff for the gematria to really work. it's harder to make up your own than you'd think. you need a really good grasp of the language.

gematria is jolly interesting, but imho, only really works properly in abjad languages (ie without vowels) as well as being jolly unconvincing in european languages, or indeed any language that is so obviously a product of massive change over time.

b'shalom

bananabrain