G-d's creation -v- evolution

[Muslimwoman]

as salaam aleykum

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but isn't really science so didnt know where to put it.

I have always been mystified why people seem to believe that G-d created the heavens and earth in 6 days or they believe in evolution - why can't both be true?

To my mind we always approach this with the usual 'human closed mind syndrome'. All the Books explain to us that G-d created the heavens and the earth in 6 days. What are the heavens? Our universe is just one small part of the heavens. So we, being arrogant humans, decide that G-d must have used earth days to create all of this. Why?

Just look at our tiny little solar system:

59 earth days = 1 day on Mercury
243 earth days = 1 day on Venus

So who is to say how long a day is to G-d? When He refers to creating the heavens and earth in 6 days, a day for G-d may be millions of years to us. If this is the case then it explains how both can be true - G-ds creation and evolution (G-d also created evolution).

Your thoughts - interesting concept or I'm in need of medical help?

Salaam

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

I have always been mystified why people seem to believe that G-d created the heavens and earth in 6 days or they believe in evolution - why can't both be true?

Hi Muslimwoman –

Well from the Catholic perspective, they are (evolution and creation). In fact in the 1960's the view was that this opposition between creation/evolution, religion/science, faith/reason had been resolved.

The issue came to life again with the activities of fundamental Christians in the US. They've put the debate back a century or so.

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

To my mind we always approach this with the usual 'human closed mind syndrome'...

For the fundamentalist, 'closed mind' is the way to go.

If people opened their hearts, then they'd be surprised what they know and understand.

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

So we, being arrogant humans, decide that G-d must have used earth days to create all of this. Why?

Mainly because 'literalists' (ie fundamentalists) do not bother to try and understand the idea of literary genre, poetry, metaphor, analogy, etc. One is not obliged to 'think' in their book.

Another problem is the ego of the modern era – no-one listens to tradition anymore, working on the assumption that because they can read, nothing in a text is beyond them. "What's good enough for me," they say, "is good enough for God."

The Sacred Scriptures are a wellspring of infinite wisdom, knowledge, goodness and light, but they can often appear obscure and even dark, and this is precisely where the commentaries of tradition shed light and understanding, and this is the voice that modernism has decided has nothing useful to say.

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Your thoughts - interesting concept or I'm in need of medical help?

You seem sane enough to me.

Pax (and a personal welcome),

Thomas

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but isn't really science so didnt know where to put it.

Hi,

Personally I don't think you can have a level playing field on this forum to discuss this subject as per the CoC. (But that's just my opinion). I'd have put it on the Science board:
"Science, scientific theories, and how they impact our view of the world and existence."

What do we mean by created? What is/was the "finished product"? Are we sure it was 6 days and not 5 or 7? Who was there to count them? Did they have a calendar with them?

On this forum that should be sufficient catalyst.

Time is a very interesting psychological construct so I don't think medical intervention is needed just yet for you.

s.

[wil]

I think it was here...I think it was BB who said...The sun wasn't created till the the third day. And since our current definitions of day revolve around our earth revolving around the sun, what was a day to G-d prior to that?

I do find quite interesting the literalists who are trying to cram evolution into the biblical creation story or vice versa...it doesn't fit.

It doesn't fit litterally, but it fits quite well in so many other ways.

I think we've all got more exploring and more learning on both concepts...

[Prober]

(The fundamentalist, unthinking, closed-minded dinosaur turned his head and slowly headed back to the cave wherein G-d still small voice could be heard)

[Muslimwoman]

Thanks for your votes of confidence on my sanity.

Sorry if you have all had this conversation before but it is the first time I have let the idea escape from my head so i would like to explore it.

Wil please can you expand on your comments, how doesn't it fit?

Snoopy, no-one had to be there with a calander, G-d told us He created them but I do get your point, another example of human arrogance or closed minded literalism.

Salaam

[wil]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Wil please can you expand on your comments, how doesn't it fit?

Well one would have to get pretty generous in their litteral definitions to arrange the days into big bang/planetary/evolutionary devolpment.

In Gen1 plants-animals-man, Gen2 man-plants-animals, the earth was covered with water until it was gathered so land could form.

We had light and darkness, and plants and earth on day 2...but no sun and moon till day 3

Scientifically there still exists conjecture but the sun I believe came before the planets and then moon was taken from the rib of the earth while it was still molten...

Up until recently we couldn't get MACs and IBMs to work together, maybe in time these will coalesce as well...

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by wil

Well one would have to get pretty generous in their litteral definitions to arrange the days into big bang/planetary/evolutionary devolpment.

In Gen1 plants-animals-man, Gen2 man-plants-animals, the earth was covered with water until it was gathered so land could form.

We had light and darkness, and plants and earth on day 2...but no sun and moon till day 3

Scientifically there still exists conjecture but the sun I believe came before the planets and then moon was taken from the rib of the earth while it was still molten...

Up until recently we couldn't get MACs and IBMs to work together, maybe in time these will coalesce as well...

Hi Wil

But that only works (or doesn't as the case may be) if you assume that G-d works in human time, ie Earth days. I thought time was elastic, at least mathematically, hence the mathmetical possibility of time travel?

I understand the reference to the sun, in the scriptures, leads us to think of the days as earth days but how do we know that a day to us is the same time span as a day to G-d?

Salaam

[Abdullah]

Salaam,

The theory of evolution concerning how living creatures emerged on earth, is only conjecture and it is not based on any plausible scientific evidence. Infact there are so many scientific impasses on the theory that for life to have evolved in the way evolutionist scientists say it did, would be impossible. There is even scientific evidence that living creatures on earth came about suddenly, in their full forms and weren't the produce of billions of years of evolution from one creature into another

Here's a link that exposes the evolution theory as a scientific impossiblity and mere wishfull thinking, and provides evidence for 'sudden creation':

Evolution Deceit. com - This website is the interactive version of the book "Evolution Deceit" by HARUN YAHYA

Since the evolution theory is a mere conjecture and a scientific impossibilty, then the only thing followers of the Abrahimic religions can base their view on how life on earth came about, is their religious texts, which says that God created all creatures. And our assumption, in the absence of any credibile evidence that suggests otherwise, should be that God created all creatures in their fully formed shape.

Salaam.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Abdullah

is their religious texts, which says that God created all creatures. And our assumption, in the absence of any credibile evidence that suggests otherwise, should be that God created all creatures in their fully formed shape.

Salaam.

as salaam aleykum brother Abdullah

Sorry I can't stop laughing, we have been disagreeing so much now you have started to argue with me even when we agree.

I didn't say we are not the creation of Allah, quite the opposite. I was merely exploring the idea that Allah created life more slowly than the '5, 6 or 7 day' theory because time is not the same for Allah as it is for us, as shown in the Quran:

And they will bid thee hasten on the Doom, and Allah faileth not His promise, but lo! a Day with Allah is as a thousand years of what ye reckon. (2:47)

Salaam

[wil]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Hi Wil

But that only works (or doesn't as the case may be) if you assume that G-d works in human time, ie Earth days. I thought time was elastic, at least mathematically, hence the mathmetical possibility of time travel?

I understand the reference to the sun, in the scriptures, leads us to think of the days as earth days but how do we know that a day to us is the same time span as a day to G-d?

Salaam

Namaste,

twas my point...the day is not a day...but a the scriptual order is different in each creation scenario and neither order fits the theory...

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste,

twas my point...the day is not a day...but a the scriptual order is different in each creation scenario and neither order fits the theory...

Surely Wil that is just mans inability to understand G-ds enormity and our inability to stretch our minds beyond human understanding. People do tend to take it very literally, a day is a day - says who?

[wil]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

says who?

the literalists...not me.

an eon, an age, a time....G-d/Allah's time.

But to me it is a story, an explanation that appeased men of that time, the time in which is was written, a way to solve the riddle how did we all get here...each isolated group of people developed an answer to that issue...and some are amazingly intuitive, so close to what science knows today...that divinely inspired is to me an appropriate assumption.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

no-one had to be there with a calander, G-d told us He created them but I do get your point, another example of human arrogance or closed minded literalism.

Salaam

Humans ain't perfect right? And most... MOST are out for other intent.... Greed, power... Whatever... Something material... And Humans... Make mistakes right? 7 days? I meant seven months lol my bad!!! God made it alone? AH SHIPS! I forgot to mention his mate Steve helped.... Humans wrote this book right?

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by wil

the literalists...not me.

an eon, an age, a time....G-d/Allah's time.

But to me it is a story, an explanation that appeased men of that time, the time in which is was written, a way to solve the riddle how did we all get here...each isolated group of people developed an answer to that issue...and some are amazingly intuitive, so close to what science knows today...that divinely inspired is to me an appropriate assumption.

Agree completely, although I wouldn't use the word 'appeased' men of that time, I would use 'gave direction to'. People often forget to study history along with religion, when each of the scriptures were revealed historical events were very important and the scriptured redireted cultures that had gone astray. Also, saying to one of the Prophets (pbut) "Lo, I say do not fly your helicopter over your neighbours industrial estate" would have made no sense. However, when you realise the passages of the scriptures relevant to those of the time, you then see what was designed for future generations and for me that is evidence of the Divine hand.

Salaam