Free discussion of historical facts and their implications

[bananabrain]

Originally Posted by paganprophet

When I say the Torah wasn't given by God I do mean the written Torah, the five books of Moses. If it had been given by God then the writers of Moses would have known about their false myths of origin and not written them.

the logical structure of this statement is as follows:

1. the Torah was not given by G!D, but written by [several] men.
2. therefore these men did not know that what they were writing was false.
3. if they had, they would not have written them.

my questions:

how does the second statement logically follow from the first?
how does one prove a "myth of origin" to be "false"?
might one not "make something up" anyway?

how do you know your "revelation" is from G!D? the world is full of sad, deluded individuals who believe they are the sole object and conveyor of the Divine Will.

in the words of carl sagan, extraordinary claims require a higher level of substantiation.

so far you have offered nothing more than some rather outrageous claims based upon anecdotes, again, based upon your own sole say-so.

i don't believe you have the slightest knowledge of Torah - a cursory, second-hand analysis of Divine Names is absolutely no substitute for internal familiarity with the workings of the ma'aseh bereishith. you are ignorant of its true inner meanings, because you are ignorant of the milliennia-old traditions of interpretation that surround every letter of the Text. how do you account for the generations of brilliant minds that have analysed every iota of Torah and have found in it nothing but startling insight and quantum levels of consistency? are we to believe that thousands upon thousands of Torah scholars, to say nothing of the masters of the mystical tradition, have missed something that you have somehow identified?

i think you should look up the medical condition known as "jerusalem syndrome" and seek assistance. it is also possible that your life-threatening illness (hardly compatible with your mission, i'd have thought, if G!D really has plans for you) from which i nonetheless wish you remission and recovery, has caused you to seek a sense of validation and achievement for your life as your own mortality begins to beckon. for all our sakes, show some dignity and humility and don't waste your time and ours by seeking converts.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[paganprophet]

Banana, I know all about the Jerusalem Syndrome. It's ironic but true that when I was actually in Jerusalem I found the place spiritually dead, no effect on me than revulsion at the commercialization of the old city, the Hassidics in their religious clown outfits (I mean you think Torah study produces "brilliant" minds but those of us without religious bias see men running around in a hot climate dressed ridiculously in fur hats and European clothes of the late 1800's. This is G-d's wisdom?). Then there was the Arab abuse of a horse in the Old City and not a single person, Hassidic Jew or Muslim Arab looking twice at the sickness paraded for tourists.

Like every Jewish and Christian person I have a special relationship to Jerusalem, this is true. Yet the "Jerusalem Syndrome" could be applied to every Zionist Jew as no one in their right mind in the 20th or 21st century would think of going to another people's land dominated by another religion and dominated by a different ethnic group and try to carve out a nation for themselves alone. Where did Zionist Jews and their supporting rabbis learn this "wisdom"?

The Torah was corrupt from the very beginning and you can't have a true relationship with God and not be wise and truthful. Especially truthful. Jews were told lies from the beginning. Huge lies. There is no possibility of moral authority stemming from a religious cult's set of lies taken as truth. You can see that in Christianity, Paul's variety that is, but perhaps you cannot see that in your own religion.

If the Torah was of God, there would have been no need for God to send Jesus in to whittle away the chaff from the wheat in the Torah instructions. If Paul's Jesus was of God there would never have been the history of Christian Western Civilization. If Muhammad was of God there wouldn't be the mess we're in today in the Middle East and Israel/OPT. These are the historical products of the Torah as root to the Abrahamic religions and God's not happy with the result.

I didn't create the fatal flaws in the organized religions that I discovered with God's guidance. They were there all along for scholars or anyone to find. Then too God has been busy resurrecting history which is also chipping away at the structure of hoary lies that constitute the Abrahamic faiths. What would you expect from 2500 years of Abrahamic abuse of God creating murder and mayhem in society after society all around the world?

Has the deaths of untold millions of people branded "pagans" been worth the Abrahamic conversion process? Has 59 years of Zionist Judaism in action produced anything anybody in their right mind would call "religious" or even "good"? These world history events are all stemming from the Torah as root ideology. God's sick and tired of all the bloodshed done in Their name and has sent in the destroying information as well as creating the spiritual recovery. I'm sorry but I'm it.

No one else has been authorized because who, but a modern Gnostic Christian prophet with Jewish ancestry, could know what was even wrong with the traditional Abrahamic religions. An outsider, an atheist, while knowing the historical facts debunking Abrahamic mythologies would not know why the Show always goes on, regardless of the death and dying of outdated theologies. God is God of the living; not the dead.

The crap must be purged from the Abrahamic belief systems. Spiritual truth must coincide with material world facts as far as they are known or believers are only deceiving themselves with fairy tales. Unfortunately, the whole Abrahamic faith system is based on such--worse, on myths lost in translation to the point of sublime idiocy yet the true believers create this cloud of unimpeachable wisdom for their intellectually stunted teachers taught not to look outside the traditional boxes for the truth.

And then there's today. Our daily bread of news of today and what do we see? Abrahamic religious warfare, our religious warfare middle ages thrown back in our faces in the 21st century. It's got to end. And a new vision established.

[Dondi]

I think we've found the Messiah!

[wil]

Originally Posted by paganprophet

....God's sick and tired of all the bloodshed done in Their name and has sent in the destroying information as well as creating the spiritual recovery. I'm sorry but I'm it.....God is God of the living; not the dead....

Okee Dokee, now we are getting somewhere.

So the Torah, the Bible, the Koran is trash, yet this is still appropriate to the Abrahamic thread?

How are we bringing the updated Abrahamic truth without the above...I guess most certainly their are portions that They are telling you to keep, and portions that They are indicating is garbage...do you have these dilineated?

Is there a new scripture to be utilized, what are They saying?

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by paganprophet

I need to be able to talk freely.

Sorry ArielMessenger (the alias you were banned with a couple of years back), but no, because:

Originally Posted by Dondi

the point of this particular forum isn't a soapbox to proclaim what you deem as Gospel at the expense of other's beliefs.

If you're here to be a genuine and constructive part of CR, as an interfaith discussion platform, then you are welcome to our hospitality.

If, on the other hand, you are simply looking to treat CR as a personal PR channel for your own unique self-centered perception of reality, then you can return to your website.

Bottom line is that we're not here to receive your message, nor listen to you claim titles for yourself.

[Francis king]

Daz gets ur whites so much brighter...

[ardenz]

has it happened yet?

watching "Life of Brian", Tao
great crowd scenes

[I, Brian]

Btw - paganprophet - you've now been set in "moderated" mode. That means you can still post, but a moderator will have to approve your posts before they'll display publicly.

No doubt you may cry foul - but let's face it, you were banned a couple of years ago for trying to use CR as nothing more than your personal promo tool, and you've signed up under a new username declaring the same intentions.

Frankly most other forum admins I know would have banned you outright, but I'd rather give you a chance to be a constructive part of CR as the interfaith vehicle it has been set up to be.

[Tao_Equus]

I hope Pagan is given the chance for all of us who have been following this thread to decide for themselves the value of what he has to say...........






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.............................. When he eventually says it

[wil]

Thought maybe we'd like to get on the same page as others in the know...

[paganprophet]

Well, I see the big gun has spoken finally. And nothing's changed. Ego and territorial control vs. free sharing of spiritual information. And I never kow tow to control freaks.

Here is the address of my website which should be online tomorrow: http://www.**********.org.

Brian will boot me off if I mention any revelations that I have personally received so there's no way for me to share them with other members here. Brian owns the site and what Brian wants is what happens here and that's that.

I would like to share discussion with you on the staggering information God has already resurrected from history that utterly destroys any idea the Abrahamics were somehow above their pagan neighbors in freely borrowing theological concepts from them and doing make-overs to make them kosher for Abrahamic consumption.

I have a forum in place on my website which will also be activated for those who want to continue to discuss the new information and the remarkable new universal Abrahamic visions that I have been fortunate to receive. I do firmly believe these new visions will save and continue the core spiritual truths found in the Abrahamic traditions as well as saving the spiritual lineage that produced knowledge and wisdom of the Spirit of Christ.

Sure, it's sounds like what it is--somebody claiming divine inspiration and a new gospel. But, hell's bells, I'm not locked up in any loony bin yet and do write with some amount of rationality. Why let this opportunity for seeing up front and personal how someone gets the strange idea in their head that God has chosen them for prophesy bearing.

[Dondi]

I second that, Tao.

[ardenz]

just checking in again....................................dum de dum

[cyberpi]

Paganprophet,
Reading a little more now, I'd like an answer to my question here before someone gets jealous of your sex stories and uses a sword against you:

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Paganprophet, your name is so interesting and since you claim to be a prophet, I'd like to ask you a pagan question: When King Arthur removed the sword from the stone, which was more valuable... the sword, or the stone? Please explain the reasoning to your answer.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Frankly most other forum admins I know would have banned you outright...

Brian, should that be a surprise when you ban yourself from others? I wonder why 'prophet' is a dirty word.

[Tao_Equus]

Hmmmmm I can only say this makes me a tad miffed. Not only has the link been mutilated but link back to the origins of Mr paganprophets past here have been deleted. I probably would find his claims laughable, but I'd like the opportunity to decide that for myself. I think this guy should be given fair opportunity to let each of us decide on the merit of his revelations. He has approached this in an honest up front way, and should be allowed to finish.

My 2p worth.

TE