Faith and Politics

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by wil

I'm with you all the way so far Kim. Now as we all have the Christ within (as I believe indicated by namaste), do you also believe that the same result, oneness with the creator could be accessed thru following Buddha, Krishna, Moses, the Tao, etc?

I do not think a person has to identify with the religion of Christianity or even know about Jesus to grow in Christ. Christ always has been and always will be. It is a blessing to have the teachings and life (and death) of Jesus through the Gospels as a guide, but without them Christ would remain.

I think it is entirely possible to grow in Christ (overcoming the apparent separation of divinity and humanity) by following the teachings of Buddha, Krishna, Moses, etc. (or even no tradition at all).

I think that if one is growing in Christ, which is evidenced by becoming more like Him, then that is ultimately who one is following (whether one knows it or not). I find the oneness through the teachings of Jesus and the old Celtic myths and practices. Another may find it through the teachings of Buddha. Still another, through Muhammed. And so forth. I have seen people of all faiths become aware of oneness and exhibit what Christians call the fruits of the Spirit. So I conclude that the Spirit of God is at work within them, and they are honoring the Divine Light within them. This is not only, I feel, the most rational and simple conclusion, but also is intuitively right when I experience the energy of these people. (It's hard for me to explain what I mean- it isn't a feeling so much as a sense.)

The teaching is a vehicle for our journey. It isn't the destination or the journey itself.

Christ is the healer of the breech between humanity and divinity, and it always existed as a Truth. I believe Christ is "the way, the truth, and the life" (and yes, the only way to the Creator) (John 14:6). I just don't think people have to share the same religion or doctrine to find that way, truth, and life. What they must share is sincerity in their seeking.

[wil]

Namaste all, and thank you for allowing the diversion. I hear you loud and clear Kim and love it all!

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

I'd bet higher percentage of Catholics voted for John Kennedy, and that Lieberman got a good Jewish vote, and Romney a good Mormon vote, I don't know how many Quakers Nixon brought out of the woodwork.

I'd say for most of us our faith plays a roll. It does with those that base pro-life, pro choice decisions on faith, others base it on science, or personal ethics and that affects their vote.

[bananabrain]

i'd say that kennedy got voted in because protestants were prepared to overlook his catholicism (and because his father bought all those votes from the mafia) and leiberman because a lot of people were prepared to overlook his being jewish, etc, etc. in the same way, reagan owed his election to the "reagan democrats", thatcher to disaffected labour voters and blair to disaffected conservative voters. i don't think it's as simple as you're all saying. the trouble with us politics is that it reduces all questions of faith to a bunch of simplistic yes/no "hot-button" issues such as abortion, gay marriage, school prayer and the like, which make for absolutely no intelligent discussion at all.

if you want a really good book on why the us "right gets it wrong and the left doesn't get it" i thoroughly recommend rev. jim wallis' "G!D's politics", which you can buy at any good bookstore.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Jamarz

I am wondering how does your faith inform your voting?

That is a twisted question because the word faith is being used as a belief or a religion, rather than having true faith in God or in a person. A book or a ritual or a belief has been supplanted for God. Voting for someone and giving them power over a third of you (30% tax bracket), is placing real faith in them. The vote is between candidates with whom you will place faith in. Imagine if I lined up two potential spouses for you and said, "Thou shalt place 30% of your will, mind, and heart into one of these two candidates". Whatever God has given us... 30% must go to one of these two administrations. Or must we willingly place that degree of faith in individuals who do not place faith in us?

[Jamarz]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

I do not think a person has to identify with the religion of Christianity or even know about Jesus to grow in Christ. Christ always has been and always will be. It is a blessing to have the teachings and life (and death) of Jesus through the Gospels as a guide, but without them Christ would remain.

I think it is entirely possible to grow in Christ (overcoming the apparent separation of divinity and humanity) by following the teachings of Buddha, Krishna, Moses, etc. (or even no tradition at all).

I think that if one is growing in Christ, which is evidenced by becoming more like Him, then that is ultimately who one is following (whether one knows it or not). I find the oneness through the teachings of Jesus and the old Celtic myths and practices. Another may find it through the teachings of Buddha. Still another, through Muhammed. And so forth. I have seen people of all faiths become aware of oneness and exhibit what Christians call the fruits of the Spirit. So I conclude that the Spirit of God is at work within them, and they are honoring the Divine Light within them. This is not only, I feel, the most rational and simple conclusion, but also is intuitively right when I experience the energy of these people. (It's hard for me to explain what I mean- it isn't a feeling so much as a sense.)

The teaching is a vehicle for our journey. It isn't the destination or the journey itself.

Christ is the healer of the breech between humanity and divinity, and it always existed as a Truth. I believe Christ is "the way, the truth, and the life" (and yes, the only way to the Creator) (John 14:6). I just don't think people have to share the same religion or doctrine to find that way, truth, and life. What they must share is sincerity in their seeking.

path_ of_ one..I so agree with what you are saying here..thanks so much for sharing because the "personal is political" if I may borrow a phrase from the "old leftist, feminist guard" and then stretch the metaphor a bit.

The experiences, feelings, and possibilities of our personal lives and beliefs are not just a matter of personal choices that we hold in private but they are defined and molded by the broader political and social setting. And they can shape the broader context as well through our actions.

Sometimes humanity will approach their faith beliefs through the lens of a specific cultural bias and read into their religious sacred text, those prejudices.

I believe that is what Skillen was addressing in his book however, I find that he is not free of the same problems that he criticizes but he does have some interesting thoughts about voluntary organizations ie families, churches, businesses, non-profit charities and foundations, that are differentiated as distinct from the political order- that is to say that the many organizational structures exist for different purposes, on different terms, under different authorities and in considerable independence from one another.

So what Christians here in the USA need to address is what they believe should be the proper responsibilities belonging to the political order in contrast to the responsibilities that belong to the nonpolitical institutions.

More in my next post...

[Jamarz]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Jamarz,
I'm not familiar with Skillen or his work, care to talk about some of his ideas?
I like to think people like Huckabee do what they do out of a deep seated value system, and beliefs about what this country should be. The Christian influence in politics still has me a bit confused sometimes because of what the Republican party stands for and what Christianity originally stood for seem at odds to me. De-regulating business to the point that atrocities are committed by business every day, exploiting third world workers, using bullying tactics to get their way, running roughshod over every idea that I was taught coming up in the Lutheran faith. Then there is the idea of preventative war and this more than anything has me wondering what it is Christianity stands for today. Is it that a blind eye is turned to issues like this because the GOP promises to cater to the more shall we say aggressive side of the Christian faith?

There are congregations here in the Springs that I find exhibit the best of what Christianity has to offer. The Rev. Jim White, now retired pastor of First Congregational Church downtown is a brilliant man and tireless worker for justice and peace. And he is only one , there are others, like Rev Jerry Trigg who used to be pastor of First Methodist, another great man I admire.
The Pikes Peak Justice and Peace organization here works so very hard as do the sisters down at the soup kitchen.
So what gives? Have Christians jumped into bed with the devil to further their aims? Or am I simply confused?

Hello Paladin,
First of all, I am very familiar with the wonderful and dedicated work of the PPJP organization and I have met both Jim White and Jerry Triggs at many functions that I was a part of in the early to late 1990's. Ever hear of Dialogue Dinners that then evolved into Food For Thought Gatherings? I worked with Amy Devine and Citizen's Project from 1994-1998 to recruit conservative evangelical Christians to come to the dinner table with other folks to talk about life, liberty and the pursuit of justice in our local community.

Anyway, James Skillen is the President of the Center of Public Justice in Washington DC..

"Let justice roll on like a river," proclaimed Amos. And Jesus said, "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness." God calls us to live upright lives and to do justice to our fellow citizens.

Today, Americans hold a wide range of clashing perspectives on public life. Christians often stand at odds with one another: some drive for political dominance, some pursue special interests, others retreat for purity's sake. Individualism and morally divided leadership fragment our country. Many citizens mistrust government and are disengaged from the political process. Interest-group politics rule the day. Bipartisan agreement is all too rare. And the poor and weak suffer most from the consequences of injustice.

We at the Center are committed to public service that responds to God's call to do justice in local, national, and international affairs.
We believe Christians should contribute to the renewal of political life.
We want to encourage officeholders and citizens to take their civic responsibilities seriously.
We envision a republic where government is competent, leaders are trustworthy, and civic society is thriving.

Our mission is to equip citizens, develop leaders, and shape policy in pursuit of our purpose to serve God, advance justice, and transform public life.

To learn more about our unique perspective, see What Distinguishes the Center for Public Justice.


Personally, I am more like lunamoth (hi there ) when it comes to my own political beliefs..ie Jim Wallis, President and Executive Director of Sojourners,
is one of my heroes.

I agree with bananabrain that Wallis' writings are a must read..here is a link to his BIO and information about his work at Sojourner's:

Sojourners : About Us : Staff


China Cat Sunflower... I so agree with you:

Religion, in terms of the "Religious Right" is more than just faith, affiliation, and dogma. It's part of an identity which includes everything that makes conservative "Christians" feel unique, superior, and connected. It includes all of our mythological heroes like John Wayne or Ronald Reagan. It includes the American work ethic. It includes a racial and ethnic superiority complex, classic misogyny, and class consciousness. Lots and lots of things besides just religion.

So as long as any religion preaches that they are superior to other religions, will this then translate as a need for political and social dominion?

[Paladin]

Jamarz,
Thanks for posting the link to the Center for Public Justice. It certainly sounds as if Skillen is a thoughtful and intelligent man whose insights are more than welcome in the public sphere. I haven't seen a Food For Thought meeting advertised for a long time now, are you aware of the group still meeting anytime soon?
I would be more than honored to sit in and listen to the kind of dialogue and community engagement you seem to embrace.

[Jamarz]

^^^ I am sorry Paladin, but FFTG is no longer around as a non-profit. We tried to have larger gatherings with lunch and or dinner round table talks. The last one I participated in was in 2002 when we had a 3 leaders from the Christian, Jewish and Muslim community present their faith and political views followed by small group discussion at our perspective tables.

We had hoped that some of the people who attended would want to sign up for home groups but no one seems to have the time to commit to hosting informal gatherings in their homes. We even offered trained volunteer facilitators to be a part of such groups to make sure that no food fights happened.

[Paladin]

Oh well, if you hear of any gatherings that might be along those lines let me know. You can always find me if you type Paladin Colorado Springs into google.