Evidence

[Bandit]

is there any physical evidence other than the scriptures, the basement of solomons temple & geography, that would show that the scriptures are true.
you guys know i have an orthodox view on the scriptures & do not need evidence to believe that it is all true & the people, places & events are literal.
anything that you all might know of in physical evidence would be most appreciated.

while we are at it, is the jewish orthodox view on the book of Job also still taken literal. ( i talked with newage on this awhile back, but did not get into it too much)

i also want to learn more on the oral tradition, but will ask that a bit later.

thank you

[Bandit]

wait. i need to reword this. sorry about that.

i am specifically asking about evidence to show the righteous seed existed.
if they find the ark that will be nice, but i will settle for just a shekel.
i hope that makes sense.

[queenofsheba]

Originally Posted by Bandit

is there any physical evidence other than the scriptures, the basement of solomons temple & geography, that would show that the scriptures are true.

Very interesting about this are the books of Siegfried H Horn. According to Ezra, the second temple was built on the same fundaments as the first. The Wailing Wall was a part of the walls that surrounded Herodes' temple complex.
There are no archeological remnants from Solomon's temple, but it was probably on the place of the al Aqsa Mosk. The Dome of the Rock is probably where the altar in open air stood.

These are the dates:
c1000 BC: temple of Solomon
587 BC: burnt down by the Babylonians (Nebukadnesar)
538 BC: start second temple (Kores of Persia)
417 BC: second temple ready (Darius II of Persia)
167 BC: temple used to worship Zeus (Antiochos IV of Syria)
164 BC: temple won back
16 BC: major reconstruction, including Wailing Wall (Herodes of Juda)
70 AD: second temple burnt down, except Wailing Wall (Titus of Rome)

[bananabrain]

anything that you all might know of in physical evidence would be most appreciated.

it's difficult to say anything about this because firstly archaeology is really not my field and secondly, it's sometimes quite difficult to know what there actually is there because the Temple mount is controlled by the waqf (islamic trust) which does a lot of mysterious excavation that the israeli archaeological establishment doesn't get to find out about and annoys the government exceedingly. who knows what they've found, or what they've hidden or destroyed because it doesn't suit them to publicise jewish claims to the "haram al-sharif". besides, jews aren't allowed up there even without the political issues because of various issues to do with the sanctity of the site in halacha (jewish law) - not that that bothers the muslims who go up there, but it is kind of worrying to us. i had the opportunity to go up there and see for myself in 1986, before the first intifada, but i turned it down because of this prohibition - i didn't even know why at the time, i wasn't especially religious. i know why now though.

so:

There are no archaeological remnants from Solomon's temple

that have been discovered, publicised and universally validated, as far as i know. that is not the same as their not existing, although i know this is donald rumsfeld's WMD argument, unfortunately, logical though it is. i don't therefore like categorical statements like that.

while we are at it, is the jewish orthodox view on the book of Job also still taken literal. ( i talked with newage on this awhile back, but did not get into it too much)

opinion is divided as to whether he is considered a real person or not - some of the classical sources are described here in some detail:

http://psychcentral.com/psypsych/Job_(person)

basically, it's an attempt to look at the problem of theodicy (bad things happening to good people) but does not appear to pose any answers, while giving a good opportunity to describe the problem.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

it's difficult to say anything about this because firstly archaeology is really not my field and secondly, it's sometimes quite difficult to know what there actually is there because the Temple mount is controlled by the waqf (islamic trust) which does a lot of mysterious excavation that the israeli archaeological establishment doesn't get to find out about and annoys the government exceedingly. who knows what they've found, or what they've hidden or destroyed because it doesn't suit them to publicise jewish claims to the "haram al-sharif". besides, jews aren't allowed up there even without the political issues because of various issues to do with the sanctity of the site in halacha (jewish law) - not that that bothers the muslims who go up there, but it is kind of worrying to us. i had the opportunity to go up there and see for myself in 1986, before the first intifada, but i turned it down because of this prohibition - i didn't even know why at the time, i wasn't especially religious. i know why now though.

ok i am aware of some of this & do understand. i just find it all so odd that the wall & temple basement is all. (kind of hard to hide that) i have two different ways of thinking about it & just trying to hold on to it.

so:


that have been discovered, publicised and universally validated, as far as i know. that is not the same as their not existing, although i know this is donald rumsfeld's WMD argument, unfortunately, logical though it is. i don't therefore like categorical statements like that.

i feel the same.

opinion is divided as to whether he is considered a real person or not - some of the classical sources are described here in some detail:

http://psychcentral.com/psypsych/Job_(person)

basically, it's an attempt to look at the problem of theodicy (bad things happening to good people) but does not appear to pose any answers, while giving a good opportunity to describe the problem.

b'shalom

bananabrain

right. test & trials but BIG ones...all the pages were coming up invalid there.

is the orthodox still holding to a literal Job, BB? or is that divided also. the jewish orthodox beliefs mean a lot to me.

[bananabrain]

the wall & temple basement is all.

well, it isn't, it's just that we don't know what else there might be really.

is the orthodox still holding to a literal Job, BB?

i honestly don't know that it is something people really think about much. both opinions seem equally popular.

have edited the link. try again.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Bandit]

thank you queenofsheeba.

thank you bananabrain. the link for Job is working now & will be looking at it all this weekend.
i just have a couple more thoughts on things, that i want to get your opinion on next week.
i miss newage, but you are being just as helpful too.

[Bandit]

this is exactly what i was looking for. great site.

Job is also mentioned in the book of Ezekiel (14:14,20), along with Noah and Daniel, as among the most righteous men.

Classical Torah scholarship has not doubted Job's existence. He was seen as a real and powerful figure. Why else would an entire volume of the Tanakh have been written about someone who was not "real" ? The scholars of Orthodox Judaism maintain that Job was in fact one of three advisors that Pharaoh consulted, prior to taking action against the increasingly multiplying Children of Israel mentioned in the Book of Exodus during the time of Moses' birth.

i am still trying to put together my thoughts on the tabernacle journey to Jerusalem & the evidence that there may be. we just dont know. ok. sigh.
but more so it seems we just dont know for sure why it is like the way it is.
i mean, we have this long haul of Israel but we cannot see the actual footsteps.
there is the foundation of babylon, possible land where sodom was, Jericho etc...BUT NO FOOTSTEPS. that is where i am trying to get at.

i have this glass slipper looking for cinderella hypothesis, to some invisible footsteps of the israelites, does that makes sense?

here is a nice site tying egypt & the israelites together. with footnotes & pics someone may like.

http://www.bibleandscience.com/archaeology/exodus.htm

anything else will be much obliged.