Ever Feared not Believing in Jesus?

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Manji,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by Manji

Vajradhara:

Could you name some of those Monotheist traditions you spoke of?

Muslims tell me i will go to hell for rejecting their religious paradigm, Sanatana Dharma adherents explain that i'll take rebirth in hell realms since i reject their paradigm, Jains tell me that i'll wind up in a hellish realm without accepting of their tradition, Jews explain that i can wind up in an unfortunate state without accepting their tradition, Christians tell me i'll end up in hell for rejecting their religious tradition and so on. by and large any religious tradition which posits itself as the exclusive and sole means by which a being can be be saved or spared the wrath of the creator deity is rife with beings that hold the sorts of views mentioned previously, in my experience.

of course, not every member of these traditions holds these views nor expresses them as such, i'm being somewhat general.

metta,

~v

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

How can one truly pursue enlightened activity, if they are not first 'touched' by the enlightened?

This suggests “the enlightened” is something that is external to oneself. Is that so? And...what do you mean by "the enlightened"?

Is it "enlightenment" that is the goal, or something else?

I do not think or behave in terms of a goal as such, only to be what I already am, but am too stupid to manage!


s.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Muslims tell me i will go to hell for rejecting their religious paradigm, Sanatana Dharma adherents explain that i'll take rebirth in hell realms since i reject their paradigm, Jains tell me that i'll wind up in a hellish realm without accepting of their tradition, Jews explain that i can wind up in an unfortunate state without accepting their tradition, Christians tell me i'll end up in hell for rejecting their religious tradition and so on.

So, will you be working out some sort of rota then?

s.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

This suggests “the enlightened” is something that is external to oneself. Is that so? And...what do you mean by "the enlightened"?

I do not think or behave in terms of a goal as such, only to be what I already am, but am too stupid to manage!


s.

External - Internal; it is all the same. We ourselves are one with the other, so the "enlightened" comes when we see love in everything. [It is what binds us together]

I try not to view things in terms of goal, either. I do try to be who I am, and like you - Am too stupid [usually] to manage, lol. Perhaps it is my trying that gets in the way? There [are] days when I manage to just [be], tho.

Love,

James

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

External - Internal; it is all the same. We ourselves are one with the other, so the "enlightened" comes when we see love in everything. [It is what binds us together]

I try not to view things in terms of goal, either. I do try to be who I am, and like you - Am too stupid [usually] to manage, lol. Perhaps it is my trying that gets in the way? There [are] days when I manage to just [be], tho.

Love,

James

Hey James, are you trying to muscle in on my niche here??!!

s.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Hey James, are you trying to muscle in on my niche here??!!

s.

Think twice, or don't think at all? Hmm, I'm thinking about how I might answer your question. Maybe I should just say "yes", or "no"? [Nah - too boring]

What do you think I might be doing?

James a.k.a "muscle" or is it "sharing your niche" or maybe I'm just "sponge"?

Are we in agreement, then?

Love ya!

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Are we in agreement, then?

To the syllable!

s.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

There [are] days when I manage to just [be], tho.

Now isn't that the apostrophe? Aren't we human [be]ings?

If there is ever a goal it is to be.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by wil

Now isn't that the apostrophe? Aren't we human [be]ings?

If there is ever a goal it is to be.

Yup

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by Manji2012

To all Buddhists who were raised in predominately Christian society, have you ever feared not believing in Jesus? Do you still to this day? Have you ever been told that you will go to hell for not believing in Jesus?

If you had feared at one time, how did you over come this fear?

Greetings Manji,
The Buddha is a Christian saint. The hellfire cannot touch him. It is skip and joy to him.
Josaphat and the Beautiful Maiden

The tale of the hermit St. Barlaam and his convert St. Josaphat is a curious link between Christianity and Buddhism, since at least the beginning of the story is unmistakably an account of the early life of the Buddha. The story is thought to have been composed by John of Damascus in the 6th century AD. It also appears, in abridged form, in the Golden Legend of Jacobus de Voragine.

The Egyptians held to the concept of the body of the river, being the true body of man, to hold and carry his spirit through to the higher regions.
This river the great Gautama crossed in life and also beyond: This river of Purgatory with flames of hellfire beneath and the breath of Cosmic Fire above.

-B.Hive


Cordially,
Br.Bruce

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Bruce Michael,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

Greetings Manji,
The Buddha is a Christian saint.

oh? doesn't the formal recognition of a saint have some requirements that must be fulfilled for such to happen?

The hellfire cannot touch him. It is skip and joy to him.

metta,

~v

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

External - Internal; it is all the same. We ourselves are one with the other, so the "enlightened" comes when we see love in everything. [It is what binds us together]

I try not to view things in terms of goal, either. I do try to be who I am, and like you - Am too stupid [usually] to manage, lol. Perhaps it is my trying that gets in the way? There [are] days when I manage to just [be], tho.

Love,

James

A thought occurred to me (imagine that).

What if being enlightened or spiritual or whatever just be that we are operating correctly according to how we were supposed to function? That when we do the right thing, we experience the spiritual or sense of enlightenment, as if operating in "the zone"? A place where we can experience the Divine or One or whatever Buddhism calls it? I would venture to say that this phenomenon can occur regardless of religious affiliation.

What if Jesus merely taught that we need to pursue that zone rather than dogmatically follow a set of laws? That the statement "...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6) is rather like a guide showing his followers the way. Whatever you believe about Jesus, certainly there is little argument that much of His concern is how we care for others. Understand that the aforementioned verse is part of the diatribe right after He washed their feet (John 13). In this simple act, He showed them how to love one another through humble service toward to one another. Note what He says:

"Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them." - John 13:13-17

This is bliss. He chowed them the example. Yet it runs counter to our own ego, for we believe that bliss comes by being served. But the tables are turned. The way is the opposite direction of that which you wish to go. So in saying, "I am the way", Jesus is pointing to that direction. This a theme throughout His whole ministry. Whomever Jesus is addressing needs to go in that direction if they are going to find whatr they need.

What is the Buddhist, the Jew, the Muslim, the Christian, or the Flying Spaghetti Monsteran looking for in his/her religion? They are looking for a change in their lives that will make them a better person, a more perfect person, though we are flawed. Or because we are flawed, and we know it. But I would venture that even the atheist/agnostic (which BTW many Buddhists are) seeks the common good in him/herself in whatever philosophy they have adopted. It is unreasonable to think that they can somehow or some way enter "the zone"?

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Dondi

A thought occurred to me (imagine that).

What if being enlightened or spiritual or whatever just be we are operating correctly according to how we were supposed to function. That when we do the right thing, we experience the spiritual or sense of enlightenment, as if operating in "the zone". A place where we can experience the Divine or One or whatever Buddhism calls it. I would venture to say that this phenomenon can occur regardless of religious affiliation.

What if Jesus merely taught that we need to pursue that zone rather than dogmatically follow a set of laws? That the statement,"...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6) is rather like a guide showing his followers the way. Whatever you believe about Jesus, certainly much of his concern is how we care for others. Understand that the aforementioned verse is part of the diatribe right after He washed their feet (John 13). In this simple act, He showed them how to love one another through humble service toward to each other. Note what He says:

"Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them." - John 13:13-17

This is bliss. Yet it runs counter to our own ego, for we believe that bliss comes by being served. The tables are turned. The way is the opposite direction of that which you wish to go. so in saying, "I am the way", Jesus is pointing to that direction. This a theme throughout His whole ministry. Whomever Jesus is addressing needs to go in that direction.

What is the Buddhist, the Jew, the Muslim, the Christian, or the Flying Spaghetti Monsteran looking for in his/her religion? They are looking for a change in their lives that will make them a better person, a more perfect person, though we are flawed. Or because we are flawed, and we know it. But I would venture that even the atheist/agnostic (which BTW many Buddhists are) seeks the common good in him/herself in whatever philosophy they have adopted. It is unreasonable to think that they can somehow or some way enter "the zone"?

Those are wonderful thoughts, Dondi. I think you are aware of more than you realize, brother. There is much I should do that I don't, and there is much I want to do, that I fear to do. I am a servent, and a friend, but I am not serving as I ought to serve. [We are here, one for the other]

Thank you for putting this in perspective!

Love ya!

James

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by Manji2012

To all Buddhists who were raised in predominately Christian society, have you ever feared not believing in Jesus? Do you still to this day? Have you ever been told that you will go to hell for not believing in Jesus?

If you had feared at one time, how did you over come this fear?

Fear: opposite of love, in my personal dictionary. To me, although it is found ad nauseaum in the current telling of Christianity, it has nothing to do with Christ or Buddha or Krishna, or any other "divine teacher".

I personally left Christianity for the hypocrisy. Fear is a part of the hypocrisy, feeds it, fuels it. Standard Institutional Christianity, like any patriarchal exclusive telling of Religion, rests on the assumption that it is the Only and Correct way. No other religious system, magical practice, spirituality, or elaborate technical theology can be allowed to stand. In order to uphold the authority of Select Christianity, or Islam, or sometimes even Buddhism, or sometimes Paganism or Hinduism even, all other systems must be discredited. Fear of exclusion from the rewards of the Holy is used as a boundary to keep the sheep in the walled pasture.

I jumped the fence once I saw that the world was a lot more colorful and lively outside of the Religious Farm. After escaping, I'd find myself every so often in a new Religious Farm, attracted by the security and the abundance of food and the seeming kindness of the Masters. But I'm an anarchical sort, and tend to ask lots of "Why? Why this? Why not this? Who says?" types of questions. The way I've been able to approach satisfying those questions is by breaking down all the fences, making firewood out of crosses and wooden buddhas, wandering widely, and cultivating my own answers from scrap and scratch.

Once I was able to see the hypocrisy Eternal Hellish Retribution as a threat from an Almighty and Mostly Benevolent Gawd (Who Really Did Love Me, Even if that Love Equalled Damnation), I was able to cut my leash to Big Poppa Gawd and frolic, picking wild mushrooms and burnt and banned books along the way, with which I nurtured an ever-present connection to immanence and Be-ing and becoming. That connection has always been there and I strutted it freely and un-selfconciously as a child. It was only by cultural and religious indocrination that this natural humanity and spiritual affinity got tarnished.

Still, I live and move through tarnishing and toxic environments. Keeping pure and dirty, loose and natural, free of sullying influences is a full-time job. One thing that's really helpful is to reframe the fearful paradigm. Jesus got you down? Gawd seem like a judgmental un-gentleman? Why not wash them off, redraw them even? Jesus is a world-wanderer full of Love and Compassion who learned about his chi from Mary Magdalene, who is a luxuriant and lusty priestess of the sexual, life-affirming Goddess. Gawd is a woman, or better yet, a child.

Unlearn what the man taught you, unless you like business suits, guilt complexes, and politics as usual.

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Namaste Bruce Michael,

thank you for the post.



oh? doesn't the formal recognition of a saint have some requirements that must be fulfilled for such to happen?





metta,

~v

Saints are saints regardless of the rules of men, Vajradhara.
Some who have been made saints by the Church aren't really, and the Church has missed plenty- Blessed Raymond Lully for instance.

Although Barlaam and Josaphat were never formally canonized, they were included in earlier editions of the Roman Martyrology (feast day 27 November) - though not in the Roman Missal - and in the Eastern Orthodox Church liturgical calendar (26 August).

Josaphat’s name may be traced to the Sanskrit term bodhisattva via the Middle Persian bodasif.

Josaphat's story appears to be in many respects a Christianized version of Gautama Buddha’s story.


Barlaam and Josaphat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shalom,
-Br.Bruce