Eschatology and Islam

[Dan Lauffer]

One of my occupations is as a college instructor in Comparative Religions. Eschatology, the study of end times, or better, a cultures view of history, has always fascinated me as a template for understanding the religions. I use a three part classification, although I know that Ninian Smart and others use a more complex one: Western Materialism/Rationalism, Christian, and Eastern Mystic. While there is some overlapping it is fairly easy to get a grasp of the general views of eschatology of each major religion in this way.

Assuming, and assuming is always dangerous, that my classification has some merit how might one classify Islam?

Here's what I've done so far. Since basic Islam rejects the Incarnation of Christ their basic outlook is more akin to Western rationalism than it is to Christianity. Yet the Sufis fit more into Eastern Mystic.

Since this is my first post and I haven't read any other I'm not sure what to expect in the way of responses but I hope that my question will stimulate serious responses.

If introductions are in order I will do so in a subsequent post.

Dan Lauffer

[Susma Rio Sep]

Originally Posted by Dan Lauffer

One of my occupations is as a college instructor in Comparative Religions. Eschatology, the study of end times, or better, a cultures view of history, has always fascinated me as a template for understanding the religions. I use a three part classification, although I know that Ninian Smart and others use a more complex one: Western Materialism/Rationalism, Christian, and Eastern Mystic. While there is some overlapping it is fairly easy to get a grasp of the general views of eschatology of each major religion in this way.

Assuming, and assuming is always dangerous, that my classification has some merit how might one classify Islam?

Here's what I've done so far. Since basic Islam rejects the Incarnation of Christ their basic outlook is more akin to Western rationalism than it is to Christianity. Yet the Sufis fit more into Eastern Mystic.

Since this is my first post and I haven't read any other I'm not sure what to expect in the way of responses but I hope that my question will stimulate serious responses.

If introductions are in order I will do so in a subsequent post.

Dan Lauffer

I am not conversant with Muslim end times. But I read that Muslim guys get to be surrounded by gorgeous girls, houris, when they get to their Paradise -- like those suicide bombers for the glory of Allah.

Have you done any research reading, or inquiring from devout Muslims where the gorgeous girls will be in the Muslim end times. Will they still be serving the Muslim guys, or they will get a chance to be served in return by handsome lads?

Tell me, when you have done your research on the end times of Muslims. That should be easy, since you are handling classes in comparative religion.

Susma Rio Sep

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

Zdrastvuitsye, hola, shalom, salaam, Dia dhuit, namastar ji, hej, konbanwa, squeak, meow, :wave: Dan Lauffer.

What college/university do you teach at? There should be a Muslim Students Organization chapter either on campus or at a nearby campus. They might be willing/able to answer any questions about their religion beyond what you've already have researched (as long as you show them the proper respect.)

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine (a college student)

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Dan Lauffer

I use a three part classification, although I know that Ninian Smart and others use a more complex one: Western Materialism/Rationalism, Christian, and Eastern Mystic.

...

Here's what I've done so far. Since basic Islam rejects the Incarnation of Christ their basic outlook is more akin to Western rationalism than it is to Christianity. Yet the Sufis fit more into Eastern Mystic.

Hi Dan, and welcome to CR.

I have to say, though, that your own classification does seem quite limited - it seems to be a very Christian-centric approach, so trying to engage the complexities of other religious thinking into such a narrow seeming band, could quite be the reason why you are having problems with the classification of different branches of Islamic thought in the first place.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Dan Lauffer! and welcome to CR!

I wish you well in your search.

[Susma Rio Sep]

May I request of you, Lauffer, to give us your very own personal definition of religion, in not more than 30 words?

My second request, you say:

Here's what I've done so far. Since basic Islam rejects the Incarnation of Christ their basic outlook is more akin to Western rationalism than it is to Christianity. Yet the Sufis fit more into Eastern Mystic.

Please enlighten me on the following questions, in not more than thirty words each:

1. What is basic Islam, aside from one of its elements being the rejection of the Incarnation?

2. What in Western rationalism is basic Islam more akin to, than it (basic Islam) is akin to Christianity?

3. Who or what are Sufis?

4. In what ways do Sufis "fit more into Eastern Mystic"?


I need your brief answers for my continuing education in Islam, Western rationalism, Sufism, and Eastern mysticism.

I almost forget, how is the discipline of comparative religion different from the discipline of religion in general? (Also in 30 words or less.)

I am here for the education in religious matters. Please help me.

Susma Rio Sep

[Vajradhara]

Namaste all,

su,

you can find out about the Sufi tradition here:

http://www.sufiorder.org/

[Susma Rio Sep]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Namaste all,

su,

you can find out about the Sufi tradition here:

http://www.sufiorder.org/

Thanks, Vaj, for the website reference on Sufism. Yes, I looked it up; ideals expounded there seem not much different from Baha'i ones.

Just the same, I would like to hear from Lauffer himself his own personal exposition briefly on Sufism and the other items I have set forth in my preceding post.

Personal letters are much more genial and empathetic than form letters; form letters that's what I see in website expositions of religious system.

Susma Rio Sep

[Vajradhara]

Salaam su,

thanks for the post.

how's that old saying go...

give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

[samabudhi]

The sufis are to the Tantric practioners as basic Muslims are to the Theravadin traditions.

The sufis desire union with God. They want to return to him.
This is in my few a clear sign of mysticism.
They rise above basic rationlisations that the mundane portion of the religion rests in.

They also have an interesting notion about how everything in the world is spinning (hence the dance).
Now I don't think that everything is literally spinning, but then what is spinning. It is a cycle.
What I do believe is that everything works in cycles, so in my few they've caught on to a critical concept which I see little of in other religions.
They make use of a trance state which they enter through chanting and spinning, much like the spinning pray wheels and mantras in Vajrayana Buddhism or shamans dancing around a fire.

Worth a look in my opinion.

As for classification, I think you should place the general Islamic beliefs in with the Christian ones if it must be done.
Rationalising about God is not going to get you very far, hence the importance of faith, trust in religious texts, restriction of religious freedom...oops.

I've said too much.

[arthra]

Dan wrote:

Since basic Islam rejects the Incarnation of Christ their basic outlook is more akin to Western rationalism than it is to Christianity. Yet the Sufis fit more into Eastern Mystic.

Reply:

I'm a little unclear about your tripartite classification system...but off hand i would say that Islam is not "more akin to western rationalism" either.... There were certanly Moslem philosophers who conveyed a deep understanding of the classics and passed this knowledge on to the West.

Also I think there was not so much a division between religion and philosophy that you have developed in the West....

Rational faculties would be considered God given and part of the soul...

Mysticism is also a part I think of Islam....

Your problem may be in approaching Islam from a Western perspective that splits and fragments mysticism, rationalism, and science in my view.

Islam does deny the Incarnation of God in the flesh but accepts the Virgin Birth of Jesus. Recall that the Ethiopian Christain rulers gave sanctuary to the Moslem refugees from the Meccan pagans. Also, that Prophet Muhammad Himself predicted the victory of Heraclius over the Sassanids.

The views of heaven mentioned by Susma are of course to be taken spiritually and allegorically in the context of the culture they were directed to... So for desert people, a place of shade and plentiful streams and fruit was paradise.... The Hoaris likewise are to be seen as spiritual beings .... not so unlike the maidens who were portrayed in the Graal legends who proferred the sacred Cup.

- Art

[veritasamat]

Greetings Mr. Lauffer,

I will venture to post a reply regarding Muslim eschatology.
In my opinion, the Islamic view of the end-times does not differ very much from the basic Christian concept, with some notable exceptions regarding the role of Jesus. I am not familiar with what you are referring to as Western rationalist eschatology, so I can't say which view it more closely resembles.

Relative to Christians, Muslims do not have a very highly developed system of eschatology. You can tune in to TBN and see John Hagee with his elaborate color timelines detailing the exact unfolding events before the Apocolypse, right down to the day, all according to his interpretation of various Bible prophecies. Muslims generally do not obsess as much about future details, believing that everything will happen as Allah plans.

There are some basic facts about the end-times revealed in the Qur'an: the earth will be leveled, mankind will be resurrected and will stand in groups awaiting judgment, Allah will separate the righteous from the wicked and they will enter their respective abodes. Beyond what's in the Qur'an, Muslim scholars can't establish anything as 100% certain doctrine, since it doesn't meet the criteria of direct revelation.

There are, however, secondary sources of authority, called ahadith, which contain more information regarding end-times. These are the sayings and doings of the Prophet Muhammad, which were transmitted by oral tradition and collected into books about 150 years after his death. They were graded at various levels of authenticity that are still debated by scholars today. Some of these sayings include specific signs, both minor and major, which will signal nearness of the end, such as a general moral decay, etc, and some curious sayings which seems to refer to the development of modern transportation. Included in the major signs is the return of Jesus to earth.

Although Muslim scholars study these sayings, as I mentioned, concern for the exact particulars regarding the End does not seem to carry as much weight for Muslims as it does for Christians, and so the eschatology is not as cut and dried. The emphasis is rather on doing good in the present and leaving the future to Allah. "Allahu 'alim" - "God knows."

I hope this helps.

veritasamat

[Susma Rio Sep]

Veritas, are you a 'card carrying' Muslim? If you are, I don't seem to see any self-introduction by yourself of your Muslim identity. But you do talk knowledgeably about Islam. Nonetheless, nothing takes the place of believers themselves expounding on their belieifs and practices.

I don't seem to come across so far in this thread any self-avowed Muslims knowledgeable with his faith, like Vaj is knowledgeable with his Buddhism and Buddhistic matters, or Bananabrain with Judaism.

Muslims if any in this forum, please step forward and give us what you know about the end times.

However I am certain that as with Christians, Muslims are divided into different and even opposing factions as regards doctrines and observances. So we have to specify what factions of Islam respectively teach about the end times. Just maybe there are Muslims who do not believe in any end times at all.

Susma Rio Sep

[veritasamat]

Hello Susmo,
Yes, I am a muslim. If you examine my beliefs, I'm sure I'd fit into the category of sunni, but beyond that I do not pledge allegiance to any particular school of thought, but rather look at what different schools have to say regarding any given issue, and choose according to logic and moral conscience. I have some ideas that tend toward mysticism and some ideas that tend toward rationalism, so I suppose I'm hard to pigeon-hole. But as far as being "card-carrying"... I do have a certificate of membership at the mosque. Will that do?
The information I gave about Muslim eschatology is general, and I doubt that any other muslims would find argument with it, except possibly shi'ah, because they hold to different historical traditions.
Here is a website that explains more in-depth. http://www.signsofthelastday.com/site.html
Peace,
veritasamat

[Apple Pie]

Greetings Dan Lauffer,Koranic Eschatology is part and parcel of Biblical Eschatology. In fact, one book of the Holy Bible was used by the authors of the Koran as a blueprint for the entire Koran.That book is the Biblical Book of Revelation.I have been researching the link between the Book of Revelation and the Koran for the past year. I have compiled evidence beyond any reasonable doubt that the Koranic concepts of Heaven, Hell, & Eschatology are derived almost entirely from this one single book.Most of these parallels are completely lost when rendered into the popular English translations. A literal study of the Arabic tells us a very different story indeed.I have amassed nearly 100 unimpeachable themes that show what has occurred, and many, many surprises unknown to most scholars.I would encourage you to compare the two Holy Books for yourself, and draw your own conclusions.Thanks for your time…