Does God interfere?

[I am free]

Hello All,

A news article I read in today's paper said that scientists had atlast found out the reason why geckos could climb walls and hang from ceilings without suction cups in their feet. The reason they say is that geckos have more than 500,000 tiny hairs on each foot. These hairs are so elastic that they can bend and be squished to conform to the microscopic crevices and nooks on any surface, even glass. Needless to say I was amazed.. If nature just intended geckos to climb walls why not provide something more common like suction cups or sticky feet?

Recently I saw on Discovery channel a lizard which squirted blood from its eyes on its predators. This scared the predators out of their wits...I would be too! How bizarre is this! Blood from eyes? How did nature even come up with something like this?

I just wonder why nature is so complex? Is this just random? Purely by chance? Or is there a design? Did God interfere in the process of evolution? Did God just tweak some natural processes... or did he just leave nature to take its own course?

Sometimes in a desperate situation when I just say a prayer an amazing and unexpected change of fortune seems to come about.

What just happened here? Did God play around with the Law of Natural consequences?

Summarising what I want to ask:

1. Does God actively create or change circumstances in my daily life?
2. If yes, then am I in any control of my destiny? Am I at all responsible for the circumstances that I find myself in?
3. If not, then what IS God's role in my life anyway?

I know there are a lot of beliefs out there ranging from "God created in 6 days" to "I dont believe in God" and I would love to hear all the different thoughts on this.

Thanks and peace,
R

[Faithfulservant]

I just wonder why nature is so complex? Is this just random? Purely by chance? Or is there a design? Did God interfere in the process of evolution? Did God just tweak some natural processes... or did he just leave nature to take its own course?

My belief is that God is THE master and origiinal author... engineer.. scientist... designer.. Is it even plausible to think that man could suddenly invent something new and revelotionary or discover some great mystery of life that God did not first think up? Look at the human body its much more complex than we ever even knew and new things are being discovered all the time... We think we are pretty smart because we can design newer and better computers.. The human body has it beat by a long shot. I believe that He has His hand in every single part of nature and the natural order of things.. We are His creation.. an example would be someone who invented an idea and let someone else create it and also get the credit for it.. The glory of creation belongs to God... Gods not going to go for someone or something else getting the credit for it.

Does God actively create or change circumstances in my daily life?

I believe He does.. by personal experience.. Not everything.. but when His plan or His will calls for it I believe He directs us in the way He wants us to go. There have been times that He directed me in the path of people that He wanted me to affect and I believe my walk with Him is close enough to recognize these times.. mostly because He lets me know

If yes, then am I in any control of my destiny? Am I at all responsible for the circumstances that I find myself in?

Yes to a point I believe we are.. He allows us to screw up lol.. because we generally learn from our mistakes.. or we learn to turn to Him for help after we have screwed it all up. People always ask why God allows suffering.. my answer to that is that suffering builds character and it helps us to grow spiritually.. If we never suffered and were always happy and led perfect lives.. how would that glorify God. God reveals Himself to us in our deepest and darkest moments..that is when we NEED Him the most and He wants us to NEED Him... that is why we are to give Him the sacrifice of a broken and contrite spirit.. We are empty and He fills us

If not, then what IS God's role in my life anyway?

Im just going to answer this because Its easy for me to clarify His roles in my life... He is my Father in heaven... He is my creator.. He is my counselor.. He is my friend.. He is my comforter.. He is my judge.. He is my redeemer.. He is my joy... He is my salvation.. He is my purpose in life.. He is the cornerstone of my foundation.. He is the author of my faith.. He is the righteous right hand that holds me up.. He is my strength..He is my King and Lord... He is ALL in ALL.. He is everything in my life. My life belongs to Him totally.

Thank you for this post.. It made my morning being able to praise Him..

[MattWolf]

I am free, as for the mechanics of it, you'll want to constantly re-evaluate and deepen your mental model of the spiritual ecosystem.

When the Centurion asked Jesus to have his son healed Jesus said he'd get to it. What did the Centurion say? Basically he said: "Oh, no need. I know that if you are one of great authority then you are capable of getting your servants to do it." The implication was that there were unseen servants of God that Christ could command to do this or that. Christ told everyone the Centurion had great faith - not that he misunderstood God. So that is a bit of an example for the ecosystem found in the Bible.

This example also seems to address your basic questions about intervention, as well. "Ask and you shall recieve, seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened." The Centurion's faith enabled him to get the intervention he requested.

There are numerous points in the Bible where God gives a person no choice, however. He hardened the hearts of some to make examples of them, and lifted others up despite themselves. So we know that sometimes what happens on earth is a direct consequence of His will and not the typical roll of the dice we take for granted.

Exactly HOW is something of a mystery. I take comfort in very complex models for this, but you don't need them. You can simply recognize that there are an infinite # of moments between any two, just as there are an infinite # of values between 1 and 2. To someone as quick as the Creator, this is a huge timeframe in which to act. And all the subatomic particles spinning at immeasurable speeds can have their direction changed in an instant.

Lastly, given that He's the Creator, perhaps God doesn't have to deal with each intervention directly. He could have programmed the whole system to respond to our emotions, our intentions, etc. All these things could work themselves out by divine rules and priorities, on-the-fly. So we could affect things even by NOT praying or thinking poorly about someone.

In the end it's all intellectual gum-chewing because you won't learn the truth in this lifetime (I guess). But when our mind is opened to all the possibilities, it is also open to the truth that it happens depsite not knowing exactly how.

[queenofsheba]

Polytheistic religions usually have a non-interfering, retired creator and younger gods who do interfere.

[I, Brian]

I have to admit, on one level, I cannot see God breaking the laws of physics for any individual reason, and not interfering with our development on any level - the universe and existence is as needs to be for the needs of the many, not the few, or the one.

And yet...on saying that, there is a constant sense of outreaching and touching by some agency which is good, and somehow connected to the Divine.

2c.

[Faithfulservant]

Physics hehe

Check this out Brian..

When I was 12 I got drunk.. Jim Beam and Diet Coke *shudders* a friend and I went walking at 2am I was on the wrong side of the road.. So here I am walking well.. staggering along on the wrong side of a dark road when I see a 2 ton truck going roughly 45 miles per hour right before it hits me.. Mind you standing in front of this truck my head didnt even reach the top of the hood... Somehow.. like the bionic woman or girl.. jumped up landed on the windshield on my knees flew off rolled down a 20ft steep embankment where I lay with only a torn AC ligament.. not even a bruise..hows that for physics..

There was no chance to move out of the way let alone prepare for a jump of that magnitude.. The guy stopped his truck and ran down the embankment going on and on about how he cant believe that I just flew..

This is a very true story.. I have the scars on my knee from surgeries..

Btw I never drank again..

[I am free]

Hi,

Thankyou all for your kind replies. You have all given me a lot of food for thought. I admit that I really dont know what God's role is in my life

I do agree with Brian's view:

I have to admit, on one level, I cannot see God breaking the laws of physics for any individual reason, and not interfering with our development on any level - the universe and existence is as needs to be for the needs of the many, not the few, or the one.

But there have been occassions when I have felt his kindness and warmth and I agree with Faithfulservant as well when she says

I believe He directs us in the way He wants us to go. There have been times that He directed me in the path of people that He wanted me to affect and I believe my walk with Him is close enough to recognize these times.. mostly because He lets me know

And I think Matt sums it up nicely

In the end it's all intellectual gum-chewing because you won't learn the truth in this lifetime (I guess). But when our mind is opened to all the possibilities, it is also open to the truth that it happens depsite not knowing exactly how.

God bless.
W regards.

[Ratanya]

Hello, I am free

Does God interfere? I thought that this was a very interesting question. There have been times in my life, where I wished God had interfered.. and times where I am sure he has. I guess (for me at least) there seems to be a combination of positive thinking and hope/faith that helps turn around events. Alternatively, I think God will interfere when you really need him. Because of our natural world and it's evolution, I like to see God as an evolving source as well.

Like Brian, I don't see God as breaking laws of physics.

Some years ago, I was going through a rough stage in my life. I was ill alot of the time. I had job, but still little money, and no car. Life was getting to a stage where it was very very tiring. I think I was at a dangerous point, where depression had started taking a turn for the worse.

On one particular evening, I decided to ask God to prove itself to me.. and I would take the proof as a sign that I had a purpose here, and should remain. Most of my previous experience with anything metaphysical had tended to reveal that God/Luck/Spirits etc worked through a series of coincidences. (At that stage I wasn't all that sure that there was a god.) Knowing that I couldn't ask for a flying purple pig to appear on my doorstep, or to win Lotto (which I had unsuccessfully asked for in the past), I decided to ask for a group of non-benefical concidences to appear visually to me in one day. After deliberating for a while, I decided that the so-called coincidences would have to be difficult, but not impossible. They were 'A Red Cup', 'Yellow Shoes' and a 'Blue Feather.' I wrote them down.. and went to sleep.

The next morning, I got up and put the TV on.. all morning no images of my *coincidences* appeared. A part of me knew, that you have to make yourself available to coincidences. I had to work around midday, so while I walked to work, I looked around everywhere, hoping to see something, but found nothing. Because I got to work early, I walked through department stores and shoe shops. Still nothing. All day at work, I examined customers hoping to see something, and still there was no signs. Through out this, I was constantly re-assessing my request. Was I being fair? Surely god had alot better things to do that humor me and my pitiful existance. I hadn't actually stated a time limit.. so maybe it wouldn't occur for another week, or month or year.

After work, I wandered about listlessly somewhat and as I approached a takeaway store, I noticed that the takeaway cups they used were the red Coca Cola brand, which were red with white Coca Cola written on them. So I thought to myself, I guess I sorta have my red cup.. I felt unconvinced. I bought a drink while I was there, and imagine my amazement, when I noticed that the cup I got was ALL red.

As I examined the cup I saw that what appeared as printing or inking type error had occured. My spirits lifted up a little. I was oddly bemused as it wasn't the Red Cup I had imagined. As I continued walking home, I passed a record shop and saw right in the centre of their display a pair of very funky, 70's style, bright yellow shoes.. which I was sure were not there earlier in the day. Now you would think that I would be impressed at this. But oddly I wasn't. Suddenly I decided that maybe I had made it far too easy.. and it really was just a coincidence. So I decided to deliberately make my way to a costume supply shop, which I knew sold beads and feathers to find my feather and to just get it over with.

I reached the shop and my plan had backfired. Searching the store, I found feathers of every single colour but blue. "Do you stock blue feathers?" I asked the shop assistant. "Sometimes," she replied (she was unhelpful.. probably because she wanted to close). "It really just depends on what comes in."

I left and started on my way home. It was dark now and I felt dejected. A part of me was slightly impressed, but on the whole I was thinking that I had been silly to request these things. How typical of *God* to leave me in confusion.

When I got home, I hadn't been in for long when I heard this odd growling noise coming from a rather large potplant I had. I could see my cat thrashing about near it and I paniced as I thought she was sick. She is a very old lazy cat, that usually spends all day sleeping on the bed. Calling her out, she suddenly trotted into the middle of the room and to my horror dropped a bird, that was in her mouth onto the carpet. I was exhasted and had forgotten all about the feather. I also just happen to have a fear of birds, so when it started frantically flying about my living room, I ran to the door to open it so it could get out. It was a rather plain looking bird, from what I could see, however to my absolute awe and surprise.. it flew over my head as it headed out the door and I looked up from directedly below it to see that the underneath of it's wings were completely BLUE with feathers.

In that moment I was struck with the most unusual sensation, of pure love. The room went all cold and I knew I was receiving something. I even started crying and felt very bad that I had doubted God's existance.. I felt bad that some poor bird had been tramatized in the effort to prove something to me. However, oddly I couldn't find a single feather (of any colour) in the room.. which I thought was quite strange, though it made me happy at the same time.

What is God's role in my life.. I really don't know either. I have been quite unhappy on a few other occassions since this time, and I always look back on this event as evidence that I suppossedly do have a purpose here, even if it doesn't seem so at that moment.

Generally however, I am usually fairly content with my life.

[Faithfulservant]

Beautiful story Ratanya thank you

[lunamoth]

In some ways I think that God interferes with us more or less constantly and it's a matter of whether we notice and/or acknowledge it or not. But like others above, I am of two minds on this. On the one hand, I don't think God needs to mess with His creation outside the laws of physics. It's more a matter of His Love pouring down on us constantly, more pervasive and life-sustaining than sunlight and air. I don't think we get "good'" answers to our prayers if we (think we) are somehow better or more pure or more sincere or more righteous or more whatever. And I get fairly upset when I hear others say that God is not answering prayers or is wiping out populaces because of some kind of group sin or whatever. Grrr.

I just don't know, I guess I am kind of rambling here. God gives us what we need and a lot of what we need is to love and help each other. Somehow God breaks through, and as MW above said, I don't objectively understand how this works, it just IS. And yet...

In my life I know that God has directly intervened and in fact the feeling that this is happening has been extremely strong and growing over the past year for me. It's been an amazing and blessed time for me to have so many confirmations rolling over me like waves. God has especially been answering my prayers through the Word of the Bible, and through the wonderful Episcopal church I have been attending. I feel like I walk into church with a problem or question heavy on my heart, and the scripture of the day will speak directly and specifically to it, lifting the burden and clearing the way for me. It happens to me often during my evening prayer and meditation as well. I know that usually this kind of experience can come and go, but it has been a tremendous source of support for me recently.

peace,
lunamoth

[Quahom1]

There are laws, then there are laws, and again there are other laws.

In the home there are laws/rules. Let's say there is a curfew. That is not a law within the town, nor the state, nor the nation, but it is in the home. And to break it, is to suffer consequences.

What if the law of physics are as we know them, are "home laws"? Or what if the laws of physics are town laws...(the speed limit in town is 40 MPH), but 70MPH on state highways?

The Law in Florida is that vehicles can drive up to 70 MPH on the roads...but says nothing about a rocket ship leaving a launch pad at 17,000 MPH.

National/Federal law says we will not have civilian aircraft moving above mach one for daily travel and commerce, but no such restrictions are on military aircraft.

Einstenien laws state that nothing of matter can exceed the speed of light, yet we see photon particles doing just that.

Quantum laws defy everything our "local laws" decree, but does that make them wrong?...or just out of town laws?

v/r

Q

[I am free]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Quantum laws defy everything our "local laws" decree, but does that make them wrong?...or just out of town laws?

So true, I guess there are somethings we will never understand. Thankyou for your reply Q. It clarified so much for me.


Regards.

[I am free]

Hi Ratanya, that was such a beautiful story. Touched me immensely. Thankyou for sharing it. I sooo totally believe that something like that could have happened. Amazing and wonderful .


Thankyou and regards.

[DrFree]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I have to admit, on one level, I cannot see God breaking the laws of physics for any individual reason, and not interfering with our development on any level - the universe and existence is as needs to be for the needs of the many, not the few, or the one.

And yet...on saying that, there is a constant sense of outreaching and touching by some agency which is good, and somehow connected to the Divine.

When you perform a deliberate action, your brain and nerves and muscles collaborate according to strict (if somewhat probabilistic) laws. Does that mean that you really didn't perform that action? That it was merely the physical result of the interactions among your cells (or the interactions among the chemicals that make up those cells, or the "elementary" particals that make up those chemicals, or the ...)? No, not merely. We cannot explain those actions by reference only to our components, even if we could know their current exact state (which quantum mechanics says we cannot). We cannot explain them (predict them, understand them, figure out what else you might do) without including in our explanation what we know about what you know and intend and hope in performing that action. In other words the best explanation includes information that is essentially about you. You as a person are an essential part of the explanation of the behavior of your body. (BTW, this is a rough characterization of Prof. Roderick Chisholm's agency theory, an approach to understanding human action that sadly seems not to have wide discussion outside professional philosophical circles.)

There is a version of panentheism that says that God is to the universe as we are to our bodies. The behavior of people and animals and stars and electrons have their own explanations in terms of their own sciences. But there may well be actions that God performs that are made up of these various local behaviors.

Note that such a God would have a slightly different challenge than we do. God has to respect our individual free will, so God has to be careful not to act in such a way that we are unable to make meaningful choices. (That is, if you agree, as I do, with Neale Donald Walsch in Conversations with God).

Of course, identifying any particular occurrence as an Act of God, according this hypothesis, would require having reliable, objective evidence about God's intentions. Unfortunately, we seem to have little agreement on what those intentions are.

[I am free]

Originally Posted by DrFree

There is a version of panentheism that says that God is to the universe as we are to our bodies. The behavior of people and animals and stars and electrons have their own explanations in terms of their own sciences. But there may well be actions that God performs that are made up of these various local behaviors.

Thankyou for the interesting perspective DrFree. I came across a similar thought recently. Individual souls are but a part of God but while God knows this the seperated souls do not. Hence each individual has a "sense of seperation" which gives him a "sense of freewill". When you realise that you are God then there is no seperateness, no individuality, no free will. Only divine will .