Do we (Muslims, Christians and Jews) believe in the same God or not?

[dauer]

i was hoping for you to be able to point me to a TaNaCh version that states that God is a she. my assumption is that there is none, that this is just some made up theory. unless, it is like you say, that the jewish translators were biased? thanks anyways...

No, it's not about G!d being translated as a she. It's about the actual gender and meaning of some of the words used for G!d. You can't see that unless you actually go to the Hebrew. Judaism doesn't consider any translation official for a reason. Any translation is going to assert things that the original text does not. If you could understand Hebrew, then you'd know that G!d is referred to using feminine language and symbolism as well as masculine language and symbolism. Also, Judaism's not sola scriptura and I don't understand why you assume it should be. And the whole tanach, as well as all sacred texts, are essentially made up theories, to use your words. Jesus is just another dying god like so many mythical figures before him.

well, at least we have the tetragramatton or Adonai...

That's not much of a response to what I said.

where can i find the chapter and verse for the mayyim chayyim?

Mayyim chayyim is mentioned many times in the Tanach as well as later Jewish scripture. I thought I had that particular passage bookmarked but do not. When all of the stuff from my old computer has been recovered and sent to me, I may have it in some notes I took from a class.

well, lets take a moment to annalyze the souls that are across the sea from us. somewhere like lets say africa, where children are starving or dying of thirst. do you think that perhaps if you were in their situation, would you still feel the same? that God doesn't give or that we recieve at all?

Honestly, I don't see the connection. And I said at a higher level G!d doesn't give or receive. Your literalism astounds me. Of G!d at that level, nothing can be said. But at a lower level, G!d both gives and receives. I'm beginning to understand how you so readily gulp down that kool-aide.

Are you thinking about the atheist in the foxhole now? That's not a proof of G!d, just an aspect of human psychology. If you must know, I've suffered more than most of the people I know, and those people would agree with me. I claim it's just as likely G!d doesn't exist as it is that he does because subjective experience is by nature fallible and biased. It's like filtering light with a with a prism. We can't see the light that's going in and when we do see it it's been distorted into multiple colors.

At the same time, you are advocating a particularist view of G!d to which I would say that any particularist view of G!d is just as likely, as well as the possibility that none of the particularist views are correct. I don't let my subjective experiences cloud my mind. I own them and value them, but I do not then claim that they are some sort of absolute truth.

And on suffering, I know of people who have suffered much and for that precise reason do not believe in G!d, though I myself do not fall into that category.

but we can say things about God. many say that He is a big mystery. that is completely false. His works are all around us so that we can behold with our eyes and then judge for ourselves. He wants to be seen. He wants us to find Him. that is the ultimate reward. for us to let Him lift the veil off of our faces so that we can see Him clearly, in all His Glory and Might.

You are making baseless assertions, and some of it is quite illogical. First of all, you can't establish that we actually see G!d's works. Second, if you see G!d's works, that doesn't mean you see G!d. That means you see His works. If you visit an area that's just been struck by a tsunami, you don't see the tsunami. You see the devastation it caused. To confuse an effect with a cause is just not logical.

Also, it doesn't seem like you're interested in people judging for themselves unless they agree with you, and it seems you assert your own judgement as more accurate than that of others, despite its particularist and subjective nature.

really? which texts am i limiting myself to? i know that dominate is an ugly word. but it is true, we eat off of the land and live off of it. if God didn't want for us to have any food or water, He just wouldn't let us have it, but it is there for the taking. even the air we breath is given to us. He is both merciful with the righteous and the wicked. no matter how we treat this planet, it was given to us. but not all are treating the earth badly, some are actually doing what they can to protect it, though it is for naught, some people actually do good here....

The bible.

Animals also eat and live off the land. Animals also eat and drink. Animals also breathe. How does the human condition differ from that of animals in such a way as to imply we are meant to dominate? There are other animals who are more numerous than humans. There are beings on this planet that can easily kill a human, that we are defenseless against even with our technology. Viruses and bacteria keep pace with our technology. Insects are more numerous and cover more territory than we do.

i don't idolize the bible. those verses have been corrupted in many ways. so i tread the ground i walk on very carefully. what i do do i rely heavily on analyzing God's works.

I don't see that at all. What I see is you relying a) on your own subjective experience and b) on the bible whenever it agrees with your own subjective experience or disagrees with another person's subjective experience. That is the same old claims to Truth and in a sense even more particularlist because it is based only on your own experiences. You're making an idol of your subjectivity.

stop making it seem like i know the truth. i am merely seeing what is presented to me in my face.

I'm not making it seem like you know the truth. I'm asserting that you've convinced yourself that you do, and the second statement above is evidence of that. If I may put what you said in different words. "I'm not saying I know the truth. I just see the truth all around me and say what it is."

That's entirely illogical.

and i don't blame you for thinking the way you do, because these times suck...

I don't think these times suck more than most other periods of history. I love the time that I live in. And whether or not it sucks has got nothing to do with whether or not we're meant to dominate the world.

well, then, dauer, you explain to me who is giving you the air you breath, or the home you live in, or the clothe you have on your back?

Why do you assume it was given, and why do you assume, even if it was given, that the giver has any resemblance to what you call G!d?

if i don't look at God's works, what should i look for then, "o mighty one"?

Look at the world around you without assumptions. If you have an experience that others do not, question it. If you and some you know have one experience, and others have a very different one, question the experience you had.

and i know that you will never see what i see or feel what i feel, but i know in my heart that years from now, we will all be one with God in the new world.

You don't know. You believe blindly despite the lack of proof. There is a huge difference.

and another thing, lets not make this about me, please...

"milking the prostate" are we, dauer? to each his own.

I'm extremely offended by your blatant hypocrisy. You ask me not to make it about you, and then you make assertions about what I do privately based not on any claims of my own, but only because of my knowledge of human physiology. Then, instead of addressing the points I made, I'm assuming because you have no way to do so, you just dismiss them, as you did above regarding Shaddai. I would suggest that because you do not have answers for me, you instead resort to attempts at attacking me, my credibility, and my character which is very low indeed.

The above, however, is a good example of the way your mind works. You jump to conclusions based on limited evidence. This helps me to understand more why you would come to believe in a metaphysic so lacking in objective evidence.

as i mentioned, i find nothing wrong with any of these things you mentioned, though i myself wouldn't do some of these things, it doesn't mean i will do it with the same sex. if you do it with someone you love and are going to spend the rest of your natural life with that person, then do it, just as long it isn't with the same sex. these are just my thoughts. please don't be offended...

As long as they are only your thoughts and you don't act on them. Otherwise you'd be just as bad as the folks who treated black folks in the US differently. It's important for us to come together and support each other when we see xenophobic tendencies in man hurting our fellows. There is a History of Jews doing as much, like Heschel marching with King.

it is not about my experience but about analyzing my environment. His works. how would you know that a schizo's hallucinations aren't real? are you God? do you see all? or don't tell me, they just have a chemical imbalance in their brain, right? i completely disagree with chemical imbalances. man can't even figure out how the brain produces thoughts or memories, let alone they are authorized to think for us about what is wrong with our brains. bullcrap if you ask me.

You're not analyzing the environment. You're confusing your subjective experience of the environment with the environment. That's like confusing a video taken of a vacation with the vacation.

And no, I've not asserted anything about the schyzophrenic's hallucinations except that your experiences are no more likely to be true than theirs. Instead of saying whether you agree or disagree, you have again jumped to conclusions based on lack of evidence. So I ask you, do you agree with me that it's just as possible the schyzophrenic is correct and you are wrong?

what ever gets us there, right, dauer?

And now you are dismissing me again, instead of answering me. Do you agree with me then, that it's okay if two men are in love or two women are in love and they act upon their love? If not, why don't you just address the issues I've raised instead of playing games?

thanks for being patient with me, bro. i will continue to talk about the subject as long as you don't point the finger at me and i can assure you that i will not point the finger at you, as well.

You already have pointed your finger at me multiple times and I've pointed out one time that you did it above. You're being a hypocrite.

[madeinrussia89]

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

hello again, russian:
you don't have to say anything, really. just wanted your thoughts on the verses. what i am trying to say that it is pointless to ask for dead people to pray for you. people that are alive? that's ok, i guess. please don't think that i am trying to tell you what the truth is because i am not. just merely presenting my point of view. take it or leave it. it would be better to have presented my thoughts to you than have just kept my fingers "shut".

Well, I guess this is just a fundamental difference in beliefs, because in my faith...just because someone dies doesn't mean they are really gone, they don't stop praying and looking after you after death.

sorry, i don't go to "church". still looking for the right one, though i am beginning to think that their isn't one, yet. to each his/her own, right?

I certainly hope that one day you find the right one.

exactly, God doesn't have the sins we have. but we are in His image. not completely, but we have aspects of Him that He is still working on. He is still perfecting us. but this is an entire explanation all together. anyways, look at these verses:
Exodus 34:14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

Deuteronomy 4:24 For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

tell me what you think, ok?

Typical Old Testament verses, very strange ones at that. I don't know what to tell you because I don't have that same translation in my Bible, but the verses are probably there to put the fear of God in our hearts, not to proclaim God as Jealous and flawed, you know.

Isaiah 54:5 For your Maker is your husband-- the Lord Almighty is his name-- the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer; he is called the God of all the earth.

Jeremiah 3:14 "Return, faithless people," declares the Lord, "for I am your husband.

Ezekiel 16:32 "'You adulterous wife! You prefer strangers to your own husband!

Okay, we call God " father in Heaven " or " husband " but he isn't literally our father or husband or even a he for that matter (Except for Jesus Christ), but much more than that, it's just a metaphor given because we can't possible wrap our heads around what God is.

Generally only nuns are referred to as being " married to God " because turning their backs on their vows is like committing adultery to a husband.

[MSE]

WHAT U AM ABOUT TO SEND TO YOU WILL ANSWER ALL YOUR QUESTIONS
PLEASE READ
INSHA ALLAH


Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:
The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:
"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".

1.
MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:
Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.
If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.
However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):

i)
Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.
[Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]

ii)
Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.
iii)
Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)
Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).
Words in the mouth:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
[Deuteronomy 18:18]

iv)
Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36).
v)
Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, "He came unto his own, but his own received him not."
iv)
Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).
2.
It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."

3.
Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:
It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:
"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."
When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra - "Read", he replied, "I am not learned".

4.
prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:
"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."
"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters
of Jerusalem."
In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad
(pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the New Testament:Al-Qur'an Chapter 61 Verse 6:
"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.' But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, 'This is evident sorcery!' "
All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.

1.
John chapter 14 verse 16:"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."
2.
Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."
3.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".
"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the
Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.
Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
Muhammad (pbuh).

4.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:
"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".
The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

[MSE]

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:
The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:
"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".

1.
MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:
Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.
If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.
However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):

i)
Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.
[Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]

ii)
Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.
iii)
Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)
Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).
Words in the mouth:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
[Deuteronomy 18:18]

iv)
Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36).
v)
Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, "He came unto his own, but his own received him not."
iv)
Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).
2.
It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."

3.
Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:
It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:
"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."
When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra - "Read", he replied, "I am not learned".

4.
prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:
"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."
"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters
of Jerusalem."
In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad
(pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the New Testament:Al-Qur'an Chapter 61 Verse 6:
"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.' But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, 'This is evident sorcery!' "
All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.

1.
John chapter 14 verse 16:"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."
2.
Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."
3.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".
"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the
Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.
Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
Muhammad (pbuh).

4.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:
"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".
The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

[Dream]

Hi MSE.

Pertaining to Jesus you said:

Originally Posted by MSE

The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.
If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.
However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):

I can tell you that your argument is not built to convince Christians at all. If you debunk Jesus than that is forgivable. He himself said that "Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man will be forgiven." (Luke 12:10), but you shouldn't say (pbuh) for Jesus either way. This is wrong. If Jesus is not the Prophet who was to come, then a false prophet (let us suggest Jesus is a false prophet) should be ignored and stoned, not blessed. This is part of Moses' criteria for testing the Prophet who was to come, but you say you're familiar with these criteria.

Jesus said in Matthew 10:24 that he did not come to bring peace to the earth, the opposite spoken by the angels who announced his birth who said "and on earth, peace, good will toward men." If Jesus is speaking correctly, then he has no need of peace. If he speaks wrongly, then we mustn't call down peace upon him. In the first case, it is disrespectful to say (pbuh) and in the second it shows disregard for Moses.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by MSE

WHAT U AM ABOUT TO SEND TO YOU WILL ANSWER ALL YOUR QUESTIONS
PLEASE READ
INSHA ALLAH

Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
Muhammad (pbuh).

4.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:
"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".
The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

Actually the Gospel identifies the Comforter/Helper/Counselor as the Holy Spirit.
John 14:15-31

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
Indwelling of the Father and the Son

19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”
22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”
23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.
The Gift of His Peace

25 “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28 You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.
29 “And now I have told you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe. 30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me. 31 But that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave Me commandment, so I do. Arise, let us go from here.

[Dream]

The title of the first post in the thread is Do we (Muslims, Christians and Jews) believe in the same God or not?

I have not read through the thread yet, so perhaps my point of view could be different after I do. To me, the answer is 'No', although its not that we disagree about the concept of One God. That there is One God we all agree. I ask how does it connect us to believe in the One God if believing means different things to different people? One thinks that believing means you do this, another believes it means to do that. So you believe there is One God! The concept is incomplete until you define what it means to you personally. If we both believe there is one God it does not create a common bond between us, because my bond is stronger with someone who lives the same way that I do regardless of their mental perceptions.

[MSE]

Position of Jesus (pbuh) in Islam:
(i)
Islam is the only non-Christian faith, which makes it an article of faith to believe in Jesus (pbuh). No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus (pbuh).
(ii)
We believe that he was one of the mightiest Messengers of Allah (swt).
(iii)
We believe that he was born miraculously, without any male intervention, which many modern day Christians do not believe.
(iv)
We believe he was the Messiah translated Christ (pbuh).

(v)
We believe that he gave life to the dead with God’s permission.
(iv)
We believe that he healed those born blind, and the lepers with God’s permission.
II
CONCEPT OF GOD IN CHRISTIANITY:
1.
Jesus Christ (pbuh) never claimed Divinity
One may ask, if both Muslims and Christians love and respect Jesus (pbuh), where exactly is the parting of ways? The major difference between Islam and Christianity is the Christians’ insistence on the supposed divinity of Christ (pbuh). A study of the Christian scriptures reveals that Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity. In fact there is not a single unequivocal statement in the entire Bible where Jesus (pbuh) himself says, "I am God" or where he says, "worship me". In fact the Bible contains statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in which he preached quite the contrary. The following statements in the Bible are attributed to Jesus Christ (pbuh):
(i) "My Father is greater than I."
[The Bible, John 14:28]
(ii) "My Father is greater than all."
[The Bible, John 10:29]
(iii) "…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…."
[The Bible, Mathew 12:28]
(iv) "…I with the finger of God cast out devils…."
[The Bible, Luke 11:20]
(v) "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
[The Bible, John 5:30]

2.
The Mission of Jesus Christ (pbuh) – to Fulfill the Law
Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity for himself. He clearly announced the nature of his mission. Jesus (pbuh) was sent by God to confirm the previous Judaic law. This is clearly evident in the following statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in the Gospel of Mathew:
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
[The Bible, Mathew 5:17-20]

3.
God Sent Jesus' (pbuh)
The Bible mentions the prophetic nature of Jesus (pbuh) mission in the following verses:
(i)
"… and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me."
[The Bible, John 14:24]

(ii)
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent."
[The Bible, John 17:3]

4.
Jesus Refuted even the Remotest Suggestion of his Divinity
Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible:
"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’
And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "
[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]
Jesus (pbuh) did not say that to have the eternal life of paradise, man should believe in him as Almighty God or worship him as God, or believe that Jesus (pbuh) would die for his sins. On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments. It is indeed striking to note the difference between the words of Jesus Christ (pbuh) and the Christian dogma of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus (pbuh).

5.
Jesus (pbuh) of Nazareth – a Man Approved of God
The following statement from the Bible supports the Islamic belief that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet of God.
"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know."
[The Bible, Acts 2:22]

6.
The First Commandment is that God is One
The Bible does not support the Christian belief in trinity at all. One of the scribes once asked Jesus (pbuh) as to which was the first commandment of all, to which Jesus (pbuh) merely repeated what Moses (pbuh) had said earlier:
"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adonai Ikhad."
This is a Hebrew quotation, which means:
"Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord."
[The Bible, Mark 12:29]
It is striking that the basic teachings of the Church such as Trinity and vicarious atonement find no mention in the Bible. In fact, various verses of the Bible point to Jesus’ (pbuh) actual mission, which was to fulfill the law revealed to Prophet Moses (pbuh). Indeed Jesus (pbuh) rejected any suggestions that attributed divinity to him, and explained his miracles as the power of the One True God.
Jesus (pbuh) thus reiterated the message of monotheism that was given by all earlier prophets of Almighty God.

NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.
III
CONCEPT OF GOD IN OLD TESTAMENT:
1.
God is One
The following verse from the book of Deuteronomy contains an exhortation from Moses (pbuh):
"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adna Ikhad".
It is a Hebrew quotation which means:
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4]

2.
Unity of God in the Book of Isaiah
The following verses are from the Book of Isaiah:
(i)
"I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour."
[The Bible, Isaiah 43:11]

(ii)
"I am Lord, and there is none else, there is no God besides me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 45:5]

(iii)
"I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 46:9]

3.
Old Testament condemns idol worship

(i)
Old Testament condemns idol worship in the following verses:
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"
"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God."
[The Bible, Exodus 20:3-5]

(ii)
A similar message is repeated in the book of Deuteronomy:
"Thou shalt have none other gods before me."
"Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that in the earth beneath, or that is in the water beneath the earth."
"Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God."
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 5:7-9]

[Dream]

MSE, you are right to say Jesus did not claim divinity. People do not listen when told these things or it would be more commonly understood. MSE, after more than a thousand years the religious people still remain largely at odds, and the faiths are not the same. I wish that I were good enough to end all such disagreements, but none of us is. I think Mohammad was a very enterprising and savvy person who lived while there was war waged by the Christian Empire upon all men, including Jews. With human beings such war is natural, and it is difficult to accept. Perhaps in all of the confusion a great man, whose loss is mourned, lost his faith and decided to make faith into his tool -- to forge an empire against the Christians. Who could blame him for it?

[Muslimwoman]

I have just spent 2.5 hours wading through this thread - ok I am a slow reader but I also wanted to digest what has been said and not just scan it.

Gosh how very sad I feel now, yet another opportunity to discuss our shared believes rather than our differences gone. I have read so many posts telling other people what their faith and belief means in order to prove theirs wrong and yours right - how pointless and how arrogant.

Perhaps people could answer a few questions for me. The rules however are:

1. You can only answer for your own Abrahamic faith.
2. You should state what that faith is (ie the name of the religion).
3. You can only answer yes or no (no buts or apart froms)

The questions are:

1. Do you believe there is only One G-d?

2. Do you believe He is the creator of the heavens and earth?

3. Do you believe He is the creator of mankind and we will all return to Him for Him to do as He wills with us?

4. Do you believe that G-d created other non-human entities (eg angels).

5. Do you believe He has sent Messengers to different nations (ie different Prophets and Messengers to different peoples throughout human history)?

6. Do you believe that G-d wants us to live good lives, with love and compassion?

7. Do you believe that you have any G-d given right to judge what is in another persons heart?


Perhaps if people would answer these according to their faith we could find some common ground?

As a Muslim I would answer Yes to 1-6 and No for 7 ..... your turn.

(NB when I use He to refer to G-d it is simply because our language is so limited and I refuse to refer to G-d as 'it' - Islam does not give a specific gender to Allah)

[OzAndy]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

I have just spent 2.5 hours wading through this thread - ok I am a slow reader but I also wanted to digest what has been said and not just scan it.

Gosh how very sad I feel now, yet another opportunity to discuss our shared believes rather than our differences gone. I have read so many posts telling other people what their faith and belief means in order to prove theirs wrong and yours right - how pointless and how arrogant.

Perhaps people could answer a few questions for me. The rules however are:

1. You can only answer for your own Abrahamic faith.
2. You should state what that faith is (ie the name of the religion).
3. You can only answer yes or no (no buts or apart froms)

The questions are:

1. Do you believe there is only One G-d?

2. Do you believe He is the creator of the heavens and earth?

3. Do you believe He is the creator of mankind and we will all return to Him for Him to do as He wills with us?

4. Do you believe that G-d created other non-human entities (eg angels).

5. Do you believe He has sent Messengers to different nations (ie different Prophets and Messengers to different peoples throughout human history)?

6. Do you believe that G-d wants us to live good lives, with love and compassion?

7. Do you believe that you have any G-d given right to judge what is in another persons heart?


Perhaps if people would answer these according to their faith we could find some common ground?

As a Muslim I would answer Yes to 1-6 and No for 7 ..... your turn.

(NB when I use He to refer to G-d it is simply because our language is so limited and I refuse to refer to G-d as 'it' - Islam does not give a specific gender to Allah)

Hi Thankyou so so so much for your post. This thread has gone off track for many recent posts.

I am a Christian and my denomination is Uniting Church in Australia which is a Potestant denomination.

Like you I would answer YES! to the first six quesrtions and NO! to the last.

This is not to say there are not significant difference between Abrahamic faiths, but I believe we believe in the same God!!!

I made this point in my first post to this thread in 2005! See Re: Do we (Muslims, Christians and Jews) believe in the same God or not?

I Hope your wonderful post puts this thread back on track and we can get back to dialogue and not diatribe!!!!

Blessings

Andrew