Do we (Muslims, Christians and Jews) believe in the same God or not?

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Well, there is the God of Law, and the God of Faith, then there is the God of Logic...

I think that about sums up the three Abrahamic faiths...

How ironic that they follow the same precepts of a oldest child, a middle child and the younest child, respectively, concerning thought and pattern.

v/r
Q

Ouch! How about: Faith, Love, and Truth... in that chronological order. Bring that to a church and they will say hope... Paul's word that combines faith and truth, but not something Jesus (pbuh) taught. You say Law? Jesus (pbuh) taught the law is a matter of Faith, and Mercy, and Judgement. (Matthew 23:23) See a pattern? (BTW, its Faith... not faithfulness) Justice maybe, but people are the unjust judges. What is the greatest commandment... Love your God (swt) with all your soul, heart, and mind... the 2nd is like it, Love your neighbor as you love yourself. So what happened to LOVE? God DOES LOVE YOU!

Without covering the many stories of Faith in Judaism lets talk 'logic'. How many times is that word in the bible? The Qur'an? Where do you get logic from? Worshipping logic or intelligence to me is like worshipping the strength of the arms or the stride of the legs. Khalifa used it 4 times in translation in place of 'sound judgement' or similar. That is a mistake in this computer age. If the eyes and ears are biased then so are those comparators. I'm not saying worship the eyes and ears either, its just to say that you choose where to look and listen and that people are guided by God (swt) and can guide each other. Marvel at the decaying flesh, but please don't make it into a religion. In my humble opinion, Logic is just another tainted word for the corpse. I see no 'mind' in 'logic'... I see 'logic' as a garment of the mind... or the soul... but especially the heart.

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Admiral_HangTuah

Believe means to think someting is true or correct or real. So, in order to believe we have to think. Then later see the facts, and choose to deeply believe it, and later declare that "yeah, man... this is true, correct and real.

To believe in one religion, we have to study all about that religion. But, to compare? Well, it is hard because the upbringing is different from one to another. The only way is to be open, and learn the truth inside it and ask anything from the righteous scholars.

Thats all.

Who judges whether a scholar is righteous? Who does the scholar judge is righteous? Who places Faith in whom?

I do not think... that I have to think... in order to believe and have Faith. If you tell me what is important I can choose to spend time thinking and comparing it to what I have seen and believed in my life... or I can put absolutely no thought into whatsoever and just believe and have Faith in your soul. See a difference? In my honest opinion, believe is closer to Faith than it is to 'think' or 'know' or 'wisdom'. That is not to say you have to close your eyes and ears and turn off your brain to have Faith. It is to say that there are many things the physical eyes and ears will never ever see, but should still believe in.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Ouch! How about: Faith, Love, and Truth... in that chronological order. Bring that to a church and they will say hope... Paul's word that combines faith and truth, but not something Jesus (pbuh) taught. You say Law? Jesus (pbuh) taught the law is a matter of Faith, and Mercy, and Judgement. (Matthew 23:23) See a pattern? (BTW, its Faith... not faithfulness) Justice maybe, but people are the unjust judges. What is the greatest commandment... Love your God (swt) with all your soul, heart, and mind... the 2nd is like it, Love your neighbor as you love yourself. So what happened to LOVE? God DOES LOVE YOU!

Without covering the many stories of Faith in Judaism lets talk 'logic'. How many times is that word in the bible? The Qur'an? Where do you get logic from? Worshipping logic or intelligence to me is like worshipping the strength of the arms or the stride of the legs. Khalifa used it 4 times in translation in place of 'sound judgement' or similar. That is a mistake in this computer age. If the eyes and ears are biased then so are those comparators. I'm not saying worship the eyes and ears either, its just to say that you choose where to look and listen and that people are guided by God (swt) and can guide each other. Marvel at the decaying flesh, but please don't make it into a religion. In my humble opinion, Logic is just another tainted word for the corpse. I see no 'mind' in 'logic'... I see 'logic' as a garment of the mind... or the soul... but especially the heart.

Of course this is only my opinion (subject to debate by anyone). However, the fact is that the Jews are the people of the "Law". The priest hood consisted of two camps, the Sadusees and the Pharasees, yet the commonality was the law (613 Mizphat). Hence the first was Law.

Christ came along and the message was "Faith". Do you believe...was the question. If so, then you are saved. No works required. Just believe. Hence the second is Faith.

Mohamad presented the Five Pillars of Islam. Carry out these functions with willing heart, and one is basic Muslim. A+B+C+D+E=Islam. Hence the third is logical.

If Star Trek were real, then the three main characters represent the three Abrahamic faiths. Captain Kirk, a Jew who used the law, Dr. McCoy who depended upon faith, and Mr. Spock, who used Logic. They worked as a well oiled machine together. They balanced each other.

I submit that we are supposed to do the same.

my thoughts

v/r

Q

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Without covering the many stories of Faith in Judaism lets talk 'logic'. How many times is that word in the bible? The Qur'an? Where do you get logic from? Worshipping logic or intelligence to me is like worshipping the strength of the arms or the stride of the legs. Khalifa used it 4 times in translation in place of 'sound judgement' or similar. That is a mistake in this computer age. If the eyes and ears are biased then so are those comparators. I'm not saying worship the eyes and ears either, its just to say that you choose where to look and listen and that people are guided by God (swt) and can guide each other. Marvel at the decaying flesh, but please don't make it into a religion. In my humble opinion, Logic is just another tainted word for the corpse. I see no 'mind' in 'logic'... I see 'logic' as a garment of the mind... or the soul... but especially the heart.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Of course this is only my opinion (subject to debate by anyone). However, the fact is that the Jews are the people of the "Law". The priest hood consisted of two camps, the Sadusees and the Pharasees, yet the commonality was the law (613 Mizphat). Hence the first was Law.

Christ came along and the message was "Faith". Do you believe...was the question. If so, then you are saved. No works required. Just believe. Hence the second is Faith.

Mohamad presented the Five Pillars of Islam. Carry out these functions with willing heart, and one is basic Muslim. A+B+C+D+E=Islam. Hence the third is logical.

To work out what kind of religion you have, examine the nature the teachings and the way they're expressed. Read the texts. Pay particularly attention to the context used, the expression and the approaches put forth. I guess we also need to have some kind of summary on Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Otherwise, any search for spirituality in these three religions will be unguided, chaotic and blind. First and foremost, try and capture the nature of the teachings.

The view I have now goes something like this:

The Christian faith tends to be "sentimental" (hence faith) in the sense that life revolves around emotions, personality, character, intimacy, relationships and interpersonal connections. The uniqueness of individuals is acknowledged (personal differences) and highlighted. It puts an emphasis on the heart and soul of people, the meaning without the structure.

Islam tends to be "institutional" (hence logic) in the sense that life revolves around social arrangements, protocols, institutions and the organisation of people in a community. The uniqueness of individuals (personal differences) is unimportant and people are supposed to align themselves to a common structural framework. It emphasises meaning based on structure.

While both Islam and Christianity both aim for personal compatibility between human beings, Christianity seems to suggest that we have the internal, instrinsic and instinctive ability to achieve personal compatibility, provided we use our instincts correctly. In other words, we are to use our personal abilities, given to us by God, and realise our unique potential that way. The organisation doesn't matter. Islam seems to suggest that there is a one-size-fits-all model that is independent of our personal abilities/differences. It's the model we must all conform to, that your aim is to conform to this model rather than using your personal abilities and your unique potential. People are to put their efforts on following the same rules, same protocols, practice the same disciplines, etc.

That's the way I've come to see it so far. If you have a summary like this, it may be easier to appreciate what the religions mean to the people who follow them.

Judaism, I'm not sure. In the past I assumed Judaism was highly dogmatic (hence Law). Reading posts in the Judaism forum and the introduction in the Jews for Judaism web site, it seems that Judaism may be more abstract than at first glance (depending on which group you belong to). When I say "abstract" I mean "not concrete." I must admit I haven't quite explored Judaism much. Perhaps I should do that soon . . .

[cyberpi]

It seems that separation of church and state has become separation of law and faith. In my view that is a mistake. Law is a matter of Faith.

Christianity has unstated pillars too: Baptism, eucharist, tithing, confession, Lord's prayer... do those pillars alone make you a true Christian? No, of course not. Neither are the pillars of Islam guaranteed salvation.

I wonder if Star Trek should be used as an example against the Qur'an and Bible? Are fictional characters who pretend to defy the physical laws of this universe our best example? Star Trek is verifiably not real and never will be.

Saltmeister, I'm not sure whether I'm more disturbed with the way you classify Christianity or the way you classify Islam. I'm left concluding you don't know too much about either. I would start with learning what the word Faith really means... it is actually the exact opposite of sentiment or emotions.

For example in the Qur'an the story of Abraham (pbuh) is expanded and it describes the son. Could you imagine the reaction of someone who is told by their father that he has heard the voice of God (swt) and is commanded to sacrifice his son? What would be your reaction, "Sure dad... Alzheimers must be kicking in... why don't you hand me that axe before you hurt someone!" ... or "But who will do the chores?" ... or "But I haven't had sex yet?!" ... or do you say, "Do what God (swt) tells you". The logical choice? One of the pillars? Or extreme Faith and obeyance.

In my view, I don't see how any Christian can claim to not know Judaism. Over 2/3 of the bible by weight is Judaism. I can't think of very many stories in the Old Testament that do not directly involve Faith in God (swt), Faith in a prophet, or simply Faith in each other.

[Karimarie]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

However, the fact is that the Jews are the people of the "Law". The priest hood consisted of two camps, the Sadusees and the Pharasees, yet the commonality was the law (613 Mizphat). Hence the first was Law.

Just a few corrections here...

The priesthood (ie the Kohanim) is by blood... One can only be born a Kohen. No matter how learned or experienced a Jew may be, if he is not a descendant of Aaron, he is not a Kohen. The Pharisees (and the Rabbis, which they later became) are, for the most part, not Kohanim. There are some Kohanim who are Rabbis, but most of the Rabbis are not.

The 613 mitzvot were a Rabbinical thing... Prior to the Rabbis coming to power, it seems most likely that very few of the commandments (except the ten utterances) were followed by Jews/Israelites outside of the priesthood. Keeping kosher, for example, was something only the priests did. The Pharisees (and Rabbis) taught that based on Exodus 19:6 "and ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." (JPS), that all Jews should live as if they were Kohanim--That is, they should follow all of the commandments, regardless of if they were priests or not.

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

Judaism, I'm not sure. In the past I assumed Judaism was highly dogmatic (hence Law). Reading posts in the Judaism forum and the introduction in the Jews for Judaism web site, it seems that Judaism may be more abstract than at first glance (depending on which group you belong to). When I say "abstract" I mean "not concrete." I must admit I haven't quite explored Judaism much. Perhaps I should do that soon . . .

Judaism's beliefs are pretty vague... The Sh'ma is pretty much the creed of Judaism...

Sh'ma Yisrael! Adonai eloheinu, Adonai echad!
"Hear, Israel! The Lord is God, the Lord Alone!"

Aside from belief in a God and that that God is the only God, the actual beliefs of Judaism are pretty vague. What is God, per se? Kabbalists would describe God as the Ein Sof, the Infinite One. Buber described God as the Eternal Thou in his philosophy of dialogue. Spinoza was a pantheist, that God was in all things, that God *is* the universe. Maimonides felt that God was essentially beyond all human comprehension. There's plenty of other Jewish philosophers who have had their own ideas about God too. Judaism never bothered to codify a creed. It may be better or worse for that, it depends on the individual.

As far as law goes... Yes, there is law in Judaism... A lot of law. Jewish law is called halakha "the way". The Torah, the Talmud, the Mishneh Torah, the Shukhah Arukh, etc. all present Jewish law... That said, some aspects of halakha have changed over time. Modern Reform and Reconstructionist Judaism have essentially abolished most of the rules, holding that while following them is traditional and not to be punished, one does not have to follow them if he or she does not wish it. Conservative Judaism follows many of the rules but is more lenient on some. Orthodoxy still does everything.

If you want to learn more about Judaism, Milton Steinberg's book Basic Judaism is a good place to start.

Originally Posted by cyberpi

In my view, I don't see how any Christian can claim to not know Judaism. Over 2/3 of the bible by weight is Judaism. I can't think of very many stories in the Old Testament that do not directly involve Faith in God (swt), Faith in a prophet, or simply Faith in each other.

Well, there's a lot more to Judaism than the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible)... Yes, it's important, but there's a wealth of other text as well (Talmud, Midrash, Responsa, the law codes, etc.) that greatly expand and elaborate upon the original text.

One may have read one of the major Jewish texts, but full knowledge of Judaism requires something that most Christians (and, for that matter, most Jews) have never done, which is read all of the text.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Karimarie

Just a few corrections here...

The priesthood (ie the Kohanim) is by blood... One can only be born a Kohen. No matter how learned or experienced a Jew may be, if he is not a descendant of Aaron, he is not a Kohen. The Pharisees (and the Rabbis, which they later became) are, for the most part, not Kohanim. There are some Kohanim who are Rabbis, but most of the Rabbis are not.

The 613 mitzvot were a Rabbinical thing... Prior to the Rabbis coming to power, it seems most likely that very few of the commandments (except the ten utterances) were followed by Jews/Israelites outside of the priesthood. Keeping kosher, for example, was something only the priests did. The Pharisees (and Rabbis) taught that based on Exodus 19:6 "and ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." (JPS), that all Jews should live as if they were Kohanim--That is, they should follow all of the commandments, regardless of if they were priests or not.



Judaism's beliefs are pretty vague... The Sh'ma is pretty much the creed of Judaism...

Sh'ma Yisrael! Adonai eloheinu, Adonai echad!
"Hear, Israel! The Lord is God, the Lord Alone!"

Aside from belief in a God and that that God is the only God, the actual beliefs of Judaism are pretty vague. What is God, per se? Kabbalists would describe God as the Ein Sof, the Infinite One. Buber described God as the Eternal Thou in his philosophy of dialogue. Spinoza was a pantheist, that God was in all things, that God *is* the universe. Maimonides felt that God was essentially beyond all human comprehension. There's plenty of other Jewish philosophers who have had their own ideas about God too. Judaism never bothered to codify a creed. It may be better or worse for that, it depends on the individual.

As far as law goes... Yes, there is law in Judaism... A lot of law. Jewish law is called halakha "the way". The Torah, the Talmud, the Mishneh Torah, the Shukhah Arukh, etc. all present Jewish law... That said, some aspects of halakha have changed over time. Modern Reform and Reconstructionist Judaism have essentially abolished most of the rules, holding that while following them is traditional and not to be punished, one does not have to follow them if he or she does not wish it. Conservative Judaism follows many of the rules but is more lenient on some. Orthodoxy still does everything.

If you want to learn more about Judaism, Milton Steinberg's book Basic Judaism is a good place to start.




Well, there's a lot more to Judaism than the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible)... Yes, it's important, but there's a wealth of other text as well (Talmud, Midrash, Responsa, the law codes, etc.) that greatly expand and elaborate upon the original text.

One may have read one of the major Jewish texts, but full knowledge of Judaism requires something that most Christians (and, for that matter, most Jews) have never done, which is read all of the text.

No correction. The people didn't put Jesus to death. The Romans did, with the help of the Sanhedrin (priests). The people simply went along. To presume that a Christian or anyone hasn't read all (as to the Jewish faith), would be in error. Actually that was rather, stinging.

v/r

Q

[Karimarie]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

No correction. The people didn't put Jesus to death. The Romans did, with the help of the Sanhedrin (priests). The people simply went along. To presume that a Christian or anyone hasn't read all (as to the Jewish faith), would be in error. Actually that was rather, stinging.

v/r

Q

The Romans did as the Jews were not at all autonomous at the time and could not have executed anyone even if they wanted to. The Sanhedrin at the time was comprised primarily of Sadducees, though there were as few Pharisees in the organisation. That said, the Jews were also being oppressed under Roman rule. Julius Caesar was an ally to the Jews, but his successors were far less accomodating to the different religion.

It would be incorrect to assume that all Christians are ignorant of Jewish canon, yes, but I think it is a fair assumption that the vast majority of Christians, due to a posessing a different faith, have not seriously endeavoured to study Talmud, Midrash or the various Jewish law codes. Honestly, how many Christians would seriously study the 1000 or so pages of the Mishnah when the text is not even relavent to their faith? It's extraneous. Conversely, most Jews do not seriously endeavour to study the writings of Thomas Aquinas or other Christian philosophers. It's not as if one is right and the other is wrong, just an acknowledgement that generally one does not have a full understanding of a creed other than his own.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Karimarie

The Romans did as the Jews were not at all autonomous at the time and could not have executed anyone even if they wanted to. The Sanhedrin at the time was comprised primarily of Sadducees, though there were as few Pharisees in the organisation. That said, the Jews were also being oppressed under Roman rule. Julius Caesar was an ally to the Jews, but his successors were far less accomodating to the different religion.

It would be incorrect to assume that all Christians are ignorant of Jewish canon, yes, but I think it is a fair assumption that the vast majority of Christians, due to a posessing a different faith, have not seriously endeavoured to study Talmud, Midrash or the various Jewish law codes. Honestly, how many Christians would seriously study the 1000 or so pages of the Mishnah when the text is not even relavent to their faith? It's extraneous. Conversely, most Jews do not seriously endeavour to study the writings of Thomas Aquinas or other Christian philosophers. It's not as if one is right and the other is wrong, just an acknowledgement that generally one does not have a full understanding of a creed other than his own.

The assumption is in error. Christianity is "based" on Jewish canon. Perhaps the average Christian may not know what Mizhvat they are following, but none the less they follow it. That is one of the main reasons that "Christian" identifies with Jewish faith, and not Islam, nor any other faith or belief.

I suppose a Jew could call a Christian something akin to a Sammaritan..."we believe, yet we do not understand what we believe...

Before one passes judgement on "backwater" faiths, I suggest speaking with a "preacher" of such faiths to be in order. In the case of Christianity, I would suggest a sampling of Catholic, Baptist, JW, Pentacostal, Mormon, Orthodox, Anglican, Coptic concepts.

We may not have the rules by number, but we understand the rules of the "game".

We are also a Jew's best ally (at least in America, that is how we are taught)...

(and yes, America is still predominantly Christian...75%).

my thoughts

v/r

Q

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Karimarie, and welcome to CR!

Interesting conversation!

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

It seems that separation of church and state has become separation of law and faith. In my view that is a mistake. Law is a matter of Faith.

The law a matter of faith? I'm not sure what you mean there. Explain law. Explain faith.

Why is separation of church and state a mistake? The Church is a community not a political system founded on institutions. The Church is not a State. People can function without a State with governing institutions if they're focused on doing good. The only reason why we needed a State was because of our own selfish desires, moral weakness and lack of self-control. The State was set up to compensate for our weakness, lack of self-control and the fact that we can't trust one another. Political systems and formal protocols are founded on distrust.

Christianity is fundamentally opposed to the idea of a State, or any kind of political system founded on formal protocols. I believe we can function without it if our intentions are always good. It's because of immoral thoughts and desires, dishonesty, conceit, greed, selfishness that we need one. Our minds are impure. We need to be cured of that kind of mind. The Christian faith is about a promise from God of a cure for that kind of mind.

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Christianity has unstated pillars too: Baptism, eucharist, tithing, confession, Lord's prayer... do those pillars alone make you a true Christian? No, of course not. Neither are the pillars of Islam guaranteed salvation.

Saltmeister, I'm not sure whether I'm more disturbed with the way you classify Christianity or the way you classify Islam. I'm left concluding you don't know too much about either. I would start with learning what the word Faith really means... it is actually the exact opposite of sentiment or emotions.

Dictionary definitions of faith:
1. Complete confidence or trust
2. Belief in God or the doctrines of a religion
3. A system of religious belief
4. Loyalty or fidelity

My use of the word "faith" revolved around definitions 1 and 4 rather than 2 and 3, even though definitions 2 and 3 concern "religion." I wasn't emphasising the "doctrinal approach" to Christianity, as I don't consider the Christian faith a religion based on structure. Definitions 1 and 4 conceptualise something personal, which is what I think "faith" is about in Christianity. You put your trust in Christianity's Messiah/Christ. The Christ is a concept of something personal. His Spirit, which is also God's Spirit, lives in you.

Baptism, the eucharist, tithing, the Lord's prayer, confession don't define the structure of Christianity. The concept of Christ is the central concept. Everything else is in the background. The baptism, eucharist, tithing, Lord's prayer, etc. are things you do while the indwelt Messiah lives in you. This is probably why many Christians keep talking about Jesus, including the name "Jesus" in every sentence when they're discussing Christianity. You might call them "the Jesus freaks." They talk about "learning about Jesus," "inviting Jesus into your life," "going for a walk with Jesus," even "talking to Jesus" and "pleasing Jesus." That's the Jesus Freak type of Christian.

Not all Christians are the same. There's the liturgical type, which is probably what you mean by baptism, the eucharist, tithing, the Lord's prayer, confession. Death and resurrection of Jesus, his sacrifice. That's liturgy. If you're deep into liturgy, or an ascetic Christian, you might include other things (disciplines) like silence, prayer, fasting, abstinence, etc. (something like that). Not all of them are monks or nuns. Some are married. If you're the mystical type, you'd be interested in the meaning of life, cosmology, angels, mind body and spirit, soul talk, spirituality, etc.

I could go on. You could explore all of that but not capture the essence of Christianity. Sooner or later you'd have to come to a conclusion of what it's really about. You could read the whole Bible, get involved in debates, study its prophecies (Daniel, Revelation, predicting Jesus' coming), look for contradictions, examine the history and scientific evidence . . . but not come to terms with its purpose. What is it about Christianity that matters most?

I've explored most of the stuff I've listed above in Christianity, so it gives me a bird's-eye view of the religion. I think it all comes down to something personal. That's why I classified it as the "sentimental" type.

Christianity may be seen to have "pillars," but if these pillars don't guarantee that God will accept you into His Kingdom then they can't be called pillars. Christianity doesn't revolve around pillars the way Islam does. There must, however, be something in the Christian faith that holds it all together. I would prefer to say that the pillar is the Messiah/Christ. Pillars support buildings. In Islam the Five Pillars are what hold up Islam. They are the foundation of Islam. In Christianity there is only one pillar: Christ. He's the capstone, cornerstone, the foundation stone. Everything else in Christianity holds together because of him.

Originally Posted by cyberpi

In my view, I don't see how any Christian can claim to not know Judaism. Over 2/3 of the bible by weight is Judaism. I can't think of very many stories in the Old Testament that do not directly involve Faith in God (swt), Faith in a prophet, or simply Faith in each other.

I am quite familiar with many of the stories in the Old Testament/Torah, but it seems there's a bit more to the Jewish faith than at first glance.

I think there's more to Judaism than just the Old Testament. Just a few hours ago I looked up an entry in the Wikipedia on the oral traditions. I happened to find an article on a so-called "Oral Torah." It seems the written Torah is not the only thing Jews rely on. The article says that the "Oral Torah" explains certain passages in the written Torah that can't be explained except by something that hadn't been written down at the time -- something either part of the culture or that was assumed knowledge.

Very enlightening! I'd been wondering about oral traditions for some time. I finally decided to find out. What makes an oral tradition? I was prompted to look it up while reading about Wicca which also has a kind of oral tradition.

Cyberpi, perhaps you could tell me about your background. The idea that the separation of church and state was a mistake is a view commonly harboured by Muslims. Moreover, "church" is not an ideology, religion or political system. It's a community. I am sure church is usually used to denote an institution or establishment, especially in the media. That's only because when someone says "Church of .... said this" they mean it's the view of that community of Christians. In Christian spirituality, the church is a "nexus of believers." In addition, Christians don't normally regard baptism, eucharist, tithing, confession, etc. as "pillars." While there are arguments over these things (as if they're more important than Christ), Christ is a central concept for most.

[Karimarie]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

The assumption is in error. Christianity is "based" on Jewish canon.

Christianity is "based" on the Tanakh, but that's only part of Jewish canon (in terms of the volume of text, actually a very small part). There is so much more to Judaism then that which is something most Christians (indeed, yourself included, it seems) are unaware of or unfamiliar with.

Have you personally given concerted effort to study the Talmud? The Midrash? Responsa?

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Perhaps the average Christian may not know what Mizhvat they are following, but none the less they follow it. That is one of the main reasons that "Christian" identifies with Jewish faith, and not Islam, nor any other faith or belief.

Not all Christians follow all of the mitzvot (indeed, according to Christian scripture, almost all of them may be safely ignored) nor do they need to. From the Jewish view, salvation for gentiles hinges on them acknowledging the covenant of Noach and following the Seven Noachide Laws.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I suppose a Jew could call a Christian something akin to a Sammaritan..."we believe, yet we do not understand what we believe...

The Samaritans were, during the Second Temple era, a very strange group in terms of Jewish law. Many Samaritans were Jews according to Jewish law, but many were not Jews and it was hard if not impossible to tell which was which. The Jews avoided them because it was unknown if they were Jews or Gentiles. Christians, though not a "people" in the sense that Jews are, are essentially the same in that regard. There are many Christians that are Jews but also many more who are not.

Christians generally understand what they believe. That does not mean, however, that they would by default understand Judaism. The vast majority of Christians would think that they understand Judaism, yes. But given that they are only given a small part of the Jewish story and receive such from the Christian perspective, they generally do not have as great of an understanding as they may think that they do.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Before one passes judgement on "backwater" faiths, I suggest speaking with a "preacher" of such faiths to be in order. In the case of Christianity, I would suggest a sampling of Catholic, Baptist, JW, Pentacostal, Mormon, Orthodox, Anglican, Coptic concepts.

I was raised Roman Catholic. I have a fairly decent understanding of Catholicism, Protestantism and Orthodox Christianity. I admit my understanding of JWs and LDS is rather limited, though.

[Quahom1]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Karimarie

Christianity is "based" on the Tanakh, but that's only part of Jewish canon (in terms of the volume of text, actually a very small part). There is so much more to Judaism then that which is something most Christians (indeed, yourself included, it seems) are unaware of or unfamiliar with.

Have you personally given concerted effort to study the Talmud? The Midrash? Responsa?

Yes.

[Karimarie]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Yes.

Then you are one of very few. The Christians who do so is quite a small group. The number of Jews who do so is also quite small, for that matter.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Karimarie

Then you are one of very few. The Christians who do so is quite a small group. The number of Jews who do so is also quite small, for that matter.

You have Dauer and Bannanbrain to thank for that...