Do these commands.....

[China Cat Sunflower]

OK, I see what you mean. But the manipulation of group dynamics is universal in religion. I mean, that's what church is for, which is why I don't attend.

Chris

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Dream

China_Cat, its terribly true. Skim a book on hypnosis, and then go sit through a high-energy sermon in any major US city or Canada. Observe that all of the tools of the hypnotist are present. Its nothing but voodoo in many cases. Charismatic, non-denominational, Pentecostal, and many other denominations are very open to Mesmer's disciples. At some of these churches to be a minister all you have to do is act like you know what you're doing.

Dream, I have forced people to drink water (lots of it), while they were under my "power" and I was over 100 feet away, and they never knew I was there. I'll never do that again. And you know as well as I do that the quickest way to break hypnotism is to call "BULL ****" in the middle of the whole thing.

That is called being alert and aware and not afraid to call a spade a spade. And this has nothing to do with Christ or Christianity, so what is your point?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

OK, I see what you mean. But the manipulation of group dynamics is universal in religion. I mean, that's what church is for, which is why I don't attend.

Chris

Oh please Chris. You know better than this. And Dream is a joke, with his crap that has no bearing on Christianity. This has gone on long enough...

[China Cat Sunflower]

Well now wait a minute Josh. Watch a couple of hours of televangelism. It's sheer manipulation. Check out a Pentecostal church service. It's controlled hysteria. I don't know what you all do over at the Celtic Catholic parish, but Catholic mass or mainline Protestant liturgy of the sort one would experience at their local Lutheran or Episcopal church exists is in an entirely different, and much more sedate universe.

Chris

[China Cat Sunflower]

I'll bet our friend Dream is somewhere between foursquare and WWCOG with a heavy dose of generic Calvinism. Hmmm...some sort of off label dominionist. What could that be? Not your typical movementarian, but little tells here and there.

Chris

[Dream]

The church in its origin is a community support organization taking care of old women without families, orphans, etc. Its like the Red Cross, Salvation Army, Social Security, school, hospital and nursing home all rolled into one. There are criteria to keep moochers from consuming the community funds. Bishops and the elders take care of the funds and make sure everyone's needs, both spiritual and physical are being taken care of. Church is not intended as a manipulative device at all.

Quahom, I have not read enough. I didn't know you exercised super-physical powers. I do not have a lot of experience with such things, but I'm glad you aren't using your 'Power' to knock over my books or something. I don't know much about your view of Christianity, but I'll try to read up.

[Dream]

Originally Posted by Dream

I've always taken Christianity very seriously. All of my family are Christians in various denominations, and mesmerism thrives in some of those denominations. Mesmerism is my hated enemy, so my interest is to destroy its practice everywhere as much as possible. I'm not sure what you mean by neo-Israelitism, but if there isn't a pristine Judeo-Christian historical stance based upon the Hebrew religion, then Christianity is a social club with parlor tricks.

Hmmmm. Now that was a self-righteous quote.

I know now that my goal to "destroy the practice of mesmerism everywhere as much as possible" is entirely impossible, even on an individual level. Beside the fact that its beyond the height of my power, it was actually a small-minded thing to say. There may be opportunities, and I may get the chance to blow away some fog; but I think it will only an indirect result of a change in my total living and thinking -- not a goal or direct action on my part. It should be an inductive process, the work of God. Am I seeing clearly myself? The fog between us both may blind me as easily as you. As SG said earlier: 'Transformation' which I take to mean that the key is self transformation. As Quahom1 said "The Commandments have not changed. Our perceptions of them have."

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Dream

Hmmmm. Now that was a self-righteous quote.

Since I started visiting and posting here, I've learned that my goal to "destroy the practice of mesmerism everywhere as much as possible" is entirely impossible, even on an individual level. There may be opportunities, and we may get the chance to blow away some fog; but I think it can only an indirect result of our total living and thinking -- not a goal.

I'm not certain where this mesmerism you talk about, is coming from. But I know for fact that standard christianity does not use this practice as way of "connecting" with God.

Like to know what denominations you are referring to...

[Dream]

To myself. How can I say that a congregation is mesmerized? It may strongly appear to me that a congregation is mesmerized, but I'm simply not in a position to see the truth about it. My illusion is thinking that I can understand their situation better than them. I didn't make them or myself.