Differing beliefs, one truth

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by cavalier

Seattlegal has already written about the Golden rule. I wonder if you, Taijasi, Will, and anyone else out there could specifically highlight some more of these commonalities, point out passages, relate some experiences.

Thanks
Andy

Does anyone have any other suggestions for universal truths that are expressed acrossed most religions that we can post examples from different traditions? I had so much fun searching for parallels to the golden rule. I'd like to do more searches!

[Dondi]

In addition to the search for "Truth" and the "Golden Rule", I believe one of the more obvious parallels, both secular and religious, is the goal of Human Potential, the striving and struggle to be all we can be (sorry, Army). To achieve greatness and excel beyond the limits of what we think. To break out of the paradigm of our thinking into higher levels of imagination and greater knowledge about ourselves and others. To transcend mediocrity and our base nature and evolve into creatures of excellence.

[Thomas]

We know that 'Truth is One' - but that does not mean all truths are equal.

Some truths are contingent upon other truths.

Some truths are true to the point that we have no reason or evidence to assume otherwise - but are rendered false when more data comes to light. We know more about the nature of the earth, or the atom, than the best speculation of the Greeks over 2,000 years ago - but that does not mean they believed a lie, but rather they believed in a truth as best as they could comprehend it. Greek philosophy worked out the circumference of the earth to within a 100 miles ... pretty good going, in my book.

So all the evidence points to the fact that truth, like everything else, is hierarchical. There are greater truths, and lesser truths.

Therefore one must allow - in principle at least - for the fact that all religions are not necessarily equal.

Thomas

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Therefore one must allow - in principle at least - for the fact that all religions are not necessarily equal.

Ok, I can buy that. For me that would lead on to another question, which I will here put into a Christian context.
In your opinion, could a religion other than Christianity, a possibly less true religion, be a pathway to God?

[Eudaimonist]

Originally Posted by Thaika

What does it profit me if I gain all of eternity in heaven, yet lose my soul (my integrity)?

Mark, the theme is all beliefs are towards the Ultimate truth. That does not mean we have to leave our integrity. Differing beliefs could be understood as Differing views, The differing views ,one truth.

I was told "So my friend just believe in God!" This can certainly be regarded as an effort to get me to drop my integrity, since this is clearly not a conclusion I would draw from my view.

Regarding your story, I have no problem with the idea that different people have different perspectives on reality. (I will not tell you "So my friend just don't believe in God!") However, this doesn't mean that all interpretations of all perspectives have equal quality or accuracy.

God will be very sad to listen what you said.

If God exists, perhaps that is so. And perhaps he would be delighted instead. And perhaps God does not exist to be sad or delighted.


eudaimonia,

Mark

[Eudaimonist]

Originally Posted by Dondi

one of the more obvious parallels, both secular and religious, is the goal of Human Potential, the striving and struggle to be all we can be (sorry, Army). To achieve greatness and excel beyond the limits of what we think. To break out of the paradigm of our thinking into higher levels of imagination and greater knowledge about ourselves and others. To transcend mediocrity and our base nature and evolve into creatures of excellence.

This is a key aspect of my philosophical path.


eudaimonia,

Mark

[Thomas]

Hi Cavalier -

In your opinion, could a religion other than Christianity, a possibly less true religion, be a pathway to God?

As a Catholic the answer is, without a doubt, yes, and the Catholic Church acknowledges the same in her ecumenical outreach to other traditions.

The Pope's recent call to brotherhood with Islam, for example, is an example of the recognition of the authenticity of religious aspiration and expression in other cultures.

I'm not sure other Christian denominations necessarily think the same way.

Thomas

[Eudaimonist]

Originally Posted by Thaika

Just like a person who is in a room sees the floor a shining light. To realise the source he sees the light in wall is reflected in the floor. Then he sees the mirror in the oppositte side which reflects the moon in the clear sky gives light to the wall. So the moon light reflected in the mirror, then reflected in the wall and then to the floor. But none of them is source of light. Even the moon as all borrowed from the sun.

Even though all are sun light it has diifference in reflection. And this reflection is the different kind of understanding of the sun.

Consider the following story.

A student one day asks his teacher, "What is Truth; and what is God?"

The teacher replies, "You don't really want an answer to that question."

"Yes I do! Please," the student responds excitedly.

Seeing he has no choice but to answer, the teacher says, "If I take a lamp and shine it toward the wall, a bright spot will appear on the wall. The lamp is our search for truth, for understanding. Too often we assume that the light on the wall is God. But the light is not the goal of the search; it is the result of the search. The more intense the search, the brighter the light on the wall. The brighter the light on the wall, the greater the sense of revelation upon seeing it! Similarly, someone who does not search, who does not bring a lantern with him, sees nothing."

Upon seeing that the student does not understand, he continues, "What we perceive as God, is the byproduct of our search for God. It may simply be an appreciation of the light, pure and unblemished, not understanding that it comes from us. Sometimes we stand in front of the light and assume that we are the center of the universe. God looks astonishingly like we do! Or we turn to look at our shadow, and assume that all is darkness. If we allow ourselves to get in the way, we defeat the purpose; which is to use the light of our search to illuminate the wall in all its beauty... and in all its flaws... and in so doing better understand the world around us."

"Ah, yes," the student responds. "But... what is Truth; and what is God?"

Resignedly, the teacher replies, "Truth is... a river."

"Yes, of course! And what is God?"

"God is... the mouth of the river."



eudaimonia,

Mark

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Hi Cavalier -

In your opinion, could a religion other than Christianity, a possibly less true religion, be a pathway to God?

As a Catholic the answer is, without a doubt, yes, and the Catholic Church acknowledges the same in her ecumenical outreach to other traditions.

The Pope's recent call to brotherhood with Islam, for example, is an example of the recognition of the authenticity of religious aspiration and expression in other cultures.

I'm not sure other Christian denominations necessarily think the same way.

Thomas

Hey Thomas
Perhaps I shouldn't be, but I am surprised that the Roman Catholic Church says yes, I'm also encouraged. Finally, I'm intrigued, "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except by me." As you rightly said, other denominations do not feel the same way, largely I think due to this verse. My explanation for it would be that you could come through the Son without actually knowing that that is what you're doing. How does the Roman Catholic Church explain the verse?

[taijasi]

Originally Posted by cavalier

Ok, I can buy that. For me that would lead on to another question, which I will here put into a Christian context.
In your opinion, could a religion other than Christianity, a possibly less true religion, be a pathway to God?

If I might humbly and sincerely submit an even more poignant and basic question:

Under WHAT CONDITIONS can Christianity (!) potentially be a pathway to God?

For after all, an intelligent person knows - that the former is a much smaller subset of the former.

taijasi

[taijasi]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Does anyone have any other suggestions for universal truths that are expressed acrossed most religions that we can post examples from different traditions? I had so much fun searching for parallels to the golden rule. I'd like to do more searches!

Yes. There are Three Laws and Principles of the New Era which I believe an astute observer will be able to identify as present within every major religion. I can state what these are, even give one example of their presence within a particular religion. These Laws and Princples, which correspond one with the other, are:

The Principle of Essential Divinity
The Law of Spiritual Approach

The Principle of Unanimity (or, `Unity in Diversity')
The Law of Group Endeavor

The Principle of Goodwill
The Law of Right Human Relations

For clarity's sake, it is important to consider that the PRINCPLE is the more fundamental in each case, and the Law is the specific method in which that Universal Princple demonstrates or works itself out.

What springs to mind for me is how these Laws and Princples are found within Buddhism, as follows:

The presence of Buddha Nature
Its unfoldment through the Eightfold Path

???
The life of the sangha

The cultivation of Bodhichitta
???

Okay, rats - I can't complete the list. Let me try Christianity:

Christ Immanent ("Christ in you, the Hope of Glory" & Psalms 82:6, John 10:34)
The practice of the Two Commandments (Matthew 22:36-40)

"Wherever two or more are gathered in my name ... " (Matthew 18:20)
The altruistic work of all the various Christian churches, viewed collectively

"Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren,ye have done it unto me." (Matthew 25:40)
The Golden Rule

The challenge I'm finding in this is that the Laws and Principles with which I started are important, yet difficult concepts in the way that I've phrased them. I'm going to post this, for posterity ... but I want to follow this one with something much, much easier to use as a springboard.

taijasi

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by taijasi

For after all, an intelligent person knows - that the former is a much smaller subset of the former.

taijasi

Have you made a mistake in typing this, or am I simply an unintelligent person? I ask because I don't know what you're getting at.

[taijasi]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Does anyone have any other suggestions for universal truths that are expressed acrossed most religions that we can post examples from different traditions? I had so much fun searching for parallels to the golden rule. I'd like to do more searches!

Seattlegal, et al,

Here you go!

The Law of Cause and Effect

`Common Wisdom'
"What goes around, comes around." (saying)

SCIENCE (not a religion, but SO???)
"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." (Newton's Third Law)

BUDDHISM, HINDUISM, SIKHISM, JAINISM
The Law of Karma (found in Upanishads, elsewhere?)

CHRISTIANITY
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." (Matthew 7:1-2)
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." (Galatians 6:7)
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Matthew 5:18)

MAHATMA GANDHI (as an exponent of Hinduism and good common sense)
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So there's a start - something folks can add to.

Namaskar,

taijasi

[taijasi]

Originally Posted by cavalier

Have you made a mistake in typing this, or am I simply an unintelligent person? I ask because I don't know what you're getting at.

My point is that of the many, many spiritual paths to Truth, God/Godhead, Enlightenment, or Wisdom ... no one religion can rightfully step forward and claim that it has the only key. Nor in fact, is it useful and productive to argue that "my religion is better than your religion," unless one has some kind of objective evidence. Citing various scriptures is surely not evidence of anything more than the reasons for one's own faith.

But to point out that all religions emphasize certain teachings and ideals universally ... is evidence, in and of itself, of a commonality that is at least suggestive of a Universal Doctrine - and thus, by my way of reasoning, a potential common origin ... for all spiritual-religious teaching. Because this is a worthy endeavor, I posted the last couple messages ... and my hope is that folks will add to the list of examples of the Law of Karma as this has been universally taught - or provide other examples of additional ideals, laws and principles.

Do you have any that seem to be universal, or that pervade several religions?

Love and Light,

taijasi

[cavalier]

Taijasi

With all due respect, I think you're missing the point. Originally I was picking up on Thomas's point about hierarchical truth. If such a thing is possible then it would follow that different religions could be more, or less true. It may Thomas's view that Christianity is the most true religion, we should let him answer that if he so wishes, but it is not my view. I would also add that you have perhaps been a little hasty in jumping to that conclusion.

My question, "In your opinion, could a religion other than Christianity, a possibly less true religion, be a pathway to God?" was directed towards a Christian. I considered it safe to assume that this Christian would believe that Christianity is a pathway to God. The question was asked to find out how the Catholic Church resolves the aforementioned Bible verse with the concept that other religions can be a pathway to God. That should have been made very obvious when I wrote, "How does the Roman Catholic Church explain the verse?"

I agree, searching for laws, ideals, and principals that pervade several relgions is a worthty endeavor, but then I would say that since it was me who, in this thread, first asked people to do that.