Dead Sea Scrolls

[didymus]

I have been reading a book; The Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered, and would like to know if you are familiar with these writings found in Qumran. There is alot of talk of a messianic figure, whether supernatural, mortal is at times not clear. This sect at Qumran removed themselves completely from the mainstream Jewish society and spoke of a "righteous teacher" and "the wicked priest". Some writings appeared to be rewriting previous stories such as Genesis and the flood account, giving it a more accurate time cycle. Do you have any interpretations of these scrolls for yourself? Does your knowledge of these scrolls change your perception of Judaism and the Messiah?

[dauer]

Reinterpreting text so that it made more sense to a particular group was fairly common. That's what midrash was for. The scrolls at qumran are to me a historical curiousity but have no bearing on my beliefs.

[bananabrain]

what dauer said - plus, it was common to make emendations and personal annotations in "non-official" scrolls, according to authorities i've consulted on the subject, so, no reason it has anything earth-shattering to say about mainstream judaism.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[didymus]

thanks for the replies. my question I guess was more how that sect at Qumran fit in with mainstream Judaism at the time. I understand that they secluded themselves because of their opposition to non Zadokite/Levite blood lines in the temple and serving as priests; Hasmoneans. Also due to the extreme corruption they witnessed by the hands of the Romans and the Hellenizing influence on Jewish people.

When I asked if these writings changed your perception of Judaism this may have been a poor choice of words. Maybe expanding or enhancing your perception would be more appropriate. I just wonder how Jewish people today view the Qumran findings and how the scrolls found paralleled or influenced later Jewish writings.

[dauer]

Well I think one of the good things about the scrolls is they help to illuminate some of the sectarian differences of the time. I had a teacher refer to the rabbinic writings on other sects, and perhaps he had said the way they dealt with the sects as well, as fascist but I really haven't studied that period of time enough to say much.


As the scrolls have been lost for so long, I don't think it would be correct to say that this group was an influence on later Jewish groups, but there have been other movements who held some similarities to them either due to extra emphasis on certain ritual laws or messianism which in their time wasn't really exclusive to them or segregation from the larger Jewish community.

I think that at that time there was a lot of activity in every direction within the Jewish community due to the political and religious ferment of that time and this was just one expression of it. My guess is that there were sects we will never know of because the tides of time have covered over their remains, and that the sects we know of, it's not that we really know. At least not as much as we'd like to. It's a wonderful discovery though in the caves.

If I found something of value in the text I would hold onto it. But I reject finite revelation so the antiquity of the document doesn't give it any extra stars for me.

Dauer

[I, Brian]

I recall Josephus wrote a few pages on the Essenes, while providing just a couple of brief sentences to describe the Pharisee and Sadduccee beliefs - probably in the "War with Rome".

Could have sworn I'd posted something on that here, but can't find it...

Anyway, my impression from what Josephus wrote, is that he seems to have been particularly enamoured of the Essenes while critical/dismissive of the Pharisees and Sadduccees - on the one hand, he seems to describe a group of people respected for their austerity and separation from mainstream Jewish politics - though it's worth bearing in mind that this would be a particularly useful view to have while at the foot of Vespasian's tent.

[InLove]

I might be going out on a non-academic limb here (or perhaps it is all academic--what do I know?) But is it possible that the reason the Qumran seem to pose such a mystery to the religious world is that their scrolls support Christian history?

It is a question. Not a challenge. Help me understand.

InPeace,
InLove

[InLove]

Let me re-phrase--not necessarily Christian history--I guess just to be politically safe, if one can ever be. I mean, does it support the O.T. and how about the New?

Please--debate if you want, use big words and references if you like, but make sense. Help me understand.

InPeace,
InLove

[InLove]

You know, sometimes I say things that don't even make sense to me--why don't I come back when I have an intelligent comment or question? Sorry--yesterday was a hard and strange day for me, and I need to not post when I am that tired.

InPeace,
InLove

[Abogado del Diablo]

Originally Posted by InLove

Let me re-phrase--not necessarily Christian history--I guess just to be politically safe, if one can ever be. I mean, does it support the O.T. and how about the New?

Please--debate if you want, use big words and references if you like, but make sense. Help me understand.

InPeace,
InLove

You might be on to something. Many scholars are headed this direction - finding paralells between the Scrolls and ideologies of Chrisitianity. However, it is very speculative - ironically, not because of the mystery about what the Essenes wrote and taught, but more because of the mystery and shadow over the historical origins of Christianity. Nevertheless, there are many similarities that have led scholars to hypothesize that perhaps some major elements of what became Christianity grew out of the Essenes or some similar Jewish sect. Eusebius was convinced that the earliest "Christian" community was the "Therapeutae" of Alexandria who were apparently described by the Jewish Neo-platonist philsopher Philo. It's only when it turned out that this community of the Therapeutae must have existed before the official timeline for the historical Jesus that Eusebius's idea was abandoned.

Seems to me there's an analytical gap in the argument against Eusebius's position on the Therapeutae, though.

[InLove]

Thanks for the graceful save, Abogado . I watch the History Channel quite a bit, and I think this is where that seed blew in from and planted itself quietly in the poorest soil of my memory. I would love to see more of the conversation that was originally in progress on this subject, as well as any thoughts or additional info anyone may have regarding this idea. (And I apologize again for the way I brought the subject up--off to download several dictionaries, now )

InPeace,
Continually Under Construction,
InLove