David & Jonathan, manly men?

[LeoSalinas22]

1 Samuel 20:41 And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded.

hello everyone,

this thread was started because of a discussion that started on the Islamic thread, "Respectful questions on a difficult subject", about the public display of affection between two men. now, i myself don't display public affection with another dude because i just don't roll like that. lol. i will with my own wife, though! call me homophobe or call me what you want, but i just think it is gross to kiss another man. i kiss my own children on the mouth and i plan to do that till the day i die or they die. i just don't see myself doing that with my own brothers or my best friend. if anything, a hug will do. anyways just my thoughts because i just think it is weird that David and Jonathan could do this since they are supposed to be godly men? i mean a did they really kiss like sloppery wet kiss or was it like continuous pecking on the mouth/cheeks? the scripture doesn't really explain this or maybe it isn't supposed to matter? great, now i am just rambling. anyways, just want to know ya'lls point of views. thanks and God bless...

[paul]

It's customary in some countries, and it's affectionate without being sexual.

The parable of the prodigal son:

Luk 15:20
And rising up, he came to his father. And when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him and was moved with compassion and running to him fell upon his neck and kissed him.

also:

Act 20:37 And there was much weeping among them all. And falling on the neck of Paul, they kissed him,
Act 20:38 Being grieved most of all for the word which he had said, that they should see his face no more. And they brought him on his way to the ship.

[LeoSalinas22]

so lets just say that a another girl and i kiss each other, like jonathan and david, did, however that may be, that would be sexual, but kissing another dude isn't? weird.

[wil]

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

so lets just say that a another girl and i kiss each other, like jonathan and david, did, however that may be, that would be sexual, but kissing another dude isn't? weird.

No that would be upto you. There are many women that I kiss and that kiss me, on the lips, the cheeks...(they don't fall upon my neck though) and it isn't sexual it is a greeting. While not well traveled I know some folks from some other countries kiss more as greetings than we in the prudish US of A do.

Everything to us in the US relates to sex, toplessness sex, nakedness sex, men hug or kiss...queers. We've relegated so much contact to sex, and because of it many men have it on the brain all the time. And women since they can't go bare will show as much cleavage or have some saying on my butt that says stare at my butt (it really doesn't matter whether it says dancer, cutie, cheerleader or whatever...) it says to us men 'stare at my butt'

But yes I've kissed men before as greetings or goodbyes...not all the time , not often, but a number of times. And somewhere we spoke if you wanna get over hugging a guy or kissing a guy...hug or kiss a homosexual...that'll make it a lot easier to hug a straight guy. And the stories that will go on in your head...right leo...I know your head is spinning already.

I'm not gay, have never had a gay experience, but I through one reason or another have met and associated with a number of gay women and men, both in business and my personal life.

[Caimanson]

Some psychoanalysts theorise homosexuality as a scale.
So if you enjoy hanging around with your same sex friends that is part of homosexuality, for example frodo and his friend in the lord of the rings (though maybe that's too extreme).
One could conclude that perhaps a degree of homosexuality is normal.

I wonder if in some of these cultures where male affection is more open, if it is a way of sublimating stronger homosexual tendencies into socially acceptable behaviour, who knows.

[paul]

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

so lets just say that a another girl and i kiss each other, like jonathan and david, did, however that may be, that would be sexual, but kissing another dude isn't? weird.

If you or i was to kiss another girl like johnathan and david it wouldn't be sexual.

If you was to never see your sister again and you loved her you may well react with the same emotion johnathan and david did.

Can you not have affection for women without it being sexual?

I'm sure when any woman fell on Paul's neck and kissed him it was not sexual.
The love women have for Christ, even men it's not sexual.

If you think people can't love one another without sexual feelings, then in my beleif i think you have problems.

[LeoSalinas22]

wait a minute, how does one fall on someone's neck? are people necking now?

[LeoSalinas22]

[quote=Caimanson;112383]One could conclude that perhaps a degree of homosexuality is normal. quote]

what!?

[paul]

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

wait a minute, how does one fall on someone's neck? are people necking now?

When one hugs someone affectionatly

[paul]

[quote=LeoSalinas22;112388]

Originally Posted by Caimanson

One could conclude that perhaps a degree of homosexuality is normal. quote]

what!?

I don't know what he's on about here either.

[LeoSalinas22]

hello paul,

If you think people can't love one another without sexual feelings, then in my beleif i think you have problems.

lol, don't get me wrong, i know for a fact that you can have a same sex relationship and not have sexual feelings involved. but, i see when reading the verse and the way they may have held each other or kissed each other, it is just so alien to me. could it be possible that David had gay feelings with Jonathan, but never acted out these homosexual feelings with a sexual act?

[paul]

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

hello paul,



lol, don't get me wrong, i know for a fact that you can have a same sex relationship and not have sexual feelings involved. but, i see when reading the verse and the way they may have held each other or kissed each other, it is just so alien to me. could it be possible that David had gay feelings with Jonathan, but never acted out these homosexual feelings with a sexual act?

No.

Your letting your mind make slanderous accusations.
There is nothing in the slightest that can justify such an accusation.

David was a Holy man, he did fall to sexual lust, but that of a woman.

[LeoSalinas22]

you are right though, maybe my mind is wandering. but David is human after all. i am just questioning this scripture. David did do alot of things. he went after another man's wife, got her husband killed, killed alot of people, was an actor, musician, soldier, poet, singer, dancer etc. he did alot of things, you know? who knows what went on through his head. i am just open to alot of possibities. maybe that is where my problem lies, i have a big imagination.

[paul]

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

you are right though, maybe my mind is wandering. but David is human after all. i am just questioning this scripture. David did do alot of things. he went after another man's wife, got her husband killed, killed alot of people, was an actor, musician, soldier, poet, singer, dancer etc. he did alot of things, you know? who knows what went on through his head. i am just open to alot of possibities. maybe that is where my problem lies, i have a big imagination.

You may find that we all have a wandering imagination on the wrong things often.
Try to set your mind on the things of God, on the holiness of God.

Try to set you mind, on the love of God, that can change you for the better.
And try to put from you the idleness of your mind that strays in corrupt thoughts, of no use to your Spiritual growth, but a hinderance.

[Faithfulservant]

Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss.