Daily Wisdom Saying - Page 21

icxn · 01-30-2005, 05:41 PM

A certain man said that there were once three men who loved labors, and they were monks. The first one chose to go about and see where there was strife, which he turned into peace; the second chose to go about and visit the sick; but the third departed to the desert that he might dwell in quietness. Finally the first man, who had chosen to still the contentions of men, was unable to make every man to be at peace with his neighbor, and his spirit was sad. He went to the man who had chosen to visit the sick; he found him in affliction because he was not able to fulfill the law which he had laid down for himself.

Then the two of them went to the monk in the desert, and seeing each other they rejoiced, and the two men related to the third the tribulations which had befallen them in the world. They entreated him to tell them how he had lived in the desert. He was silent, but after a little he said unto them, "Come, let each of us go and fill a vessel of water." After they had filled the vessel, he said unto them, "Pour out some of the water into a basin, and look down to the bottom through it," and they did so. He then said unto them, "What do you see?" And they said, "We see nothing." After the water in the basin had ceased to move, he said to them a second time, "Look into the water," and they looked, and he said unto them, "What do you see?" They said unto him, "We see our own faces distinctly."

He said unto them, "Thus is it with the man who dwelleth with men, for by reason of the disturbance caused by the affairs of the world he cannot see his sins; but if he live in the peace and quietness of the desert he is able to see God clearly." - The Desert Fathers

icxn · 01-30-2005, 06:04 PM

Yet...

Four monks of Scetis, clothed in skins, came one day to see the great Pambo. Each one revealed the virtue of his neighbor. The first fasted a great deal; the second was poor; the third had acquired great charity; and they said of the fourth that he had lived for twenty-two years in obedience to an old man. Abba Pambo said to them, “I tell you, the virtue of this last one is the greatest. Each of the others has obtained the virtue he wished to acquire; but the last one, restraining his own will, does the will of another. Now it is of such men that the martyrs are made, if they persevere to the end.” - Abba Pambo "The Desert Fathers"

Obedience is absolute renunciation of our own life, clearly expressed in our bodily actions. Or, conversely, obedience is the mortification of the limbs while the mind remains alive. Obedience is unquestioning movement, voluntary death, a life free of curiosity, carefree danger, unprepared defense before God, fearlessness of death, a safe voyage, a sleeper’s progress. Obedience is the tomb of the will and the resurrection of humility. A corpse does not argue or reason as to what is good or what seems to be bad. For he who has devoutly put the soul of the novice to death will answer for everything. Obedience is an abandonment of discernment in a wealth of discernment. - St John Climacus, "The Ladder of Divine Ascent"

icxn · 01-30-2005, 06:12 PM

I remember the years when I was still a boy in that section of the Thebaid where the blessed Anthony used to live. Some older men came to visit him and to talk to him about perfection. Their talk lasted from the evening hours until dawn and the problem we are now discussing took up the greatest part of the night.

"There was a most searching inquiry into which of the virtues and which observance could always preserve a monk from the snares and deceptions of the devil and could lead him with firm tread on a sure path to the summit of perfection. Each one offered an opinion in accordance with the understanding he had of the matter. Some declared that by means of zealous fasting and the keeping of vigils the mind would be enlarged and would produce purity of heart and body so as to enable one to come all the more easily into union with God. Others posited detachment from everything in order that the mind, shorn of everything, freed from all the snares which were holding it back, would come more speedily to God. Others thought that what was necessary was to get completely away, to have the solitude and secrecy of the desert where a man, living there always, could converse more intimately with God and where union could be achieved more directly. Some opted for the practice of charity, that is to say, the works of hospitality, since it was to people of this kind that the Lord in the gospel promised especially that he would give the kingdom of heaven. 'Come, you blessed ones of my father, come and possess the kingdom which has been ready for you since the beginning of the world. I was hungry and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me a drink,' and so on (Matthew 25: 34-35).

"Thus it was that the different virtues were said to give a more certain access to God. And most of the night was spent in this inquiry.

"Finally, the blessed Anthony spoke. 'All the things that you have spoken about are necessary and helpful to those thirsting for God and longing to reach him. But the countless disasters and experiences of many people do not permit that any one of these virtues should be said to be the prime influence for good. For very often we have seen people who have been most zealous in their fasts and vigils, who have lived wondrously solitary lives, who have endured such total privation of everything that they would not allow themselves to hold on to even a day's food or even a single coin of the lowest value, who have hastened to do all that is required in charity - and who have suddenly fallen prey to illusion with the result that not only could they not give a fitting end to the work they had undertaken but they brought to an abominable conclusion that high zeal of theirs and that praiseworthy mode of life. Hence if we probe the exact reason for their delusion and fall we will be able to recognize what it is that, above all else, leads us to God. The virtuous activities, of which you were talking, flourished among them. But the lack of discernment prevented them from reaching the end. No other cause can be found for their downfall. Lacking the training provided by older men they could in no way acquire this virtue of discernment which, avoiding extremes, teaches the monk to walk always on the royal road. It keeps him from veering to the right, that is, it keeps him from going with stupid presumption and excessive fervor beyond the boundary of reasonable restraint. It keeps him from going to the left to carelessness and sin, to sluggishness of spirit, and all this on the pretext of actually keeping the body under control.' - St John Cassian, "Conferences"

Vajradhara · 02-11-2005, 03:53 PM

Freedom is a human need; it may even be more than human.

I have a cat. People feed this cat; and pet this cat; they give the cat everything he needs.

But everytime the window is open just a little, he runs away.

~Tenzin Gyatso, His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama

ISFP · 02-12-2005, 06:33 PM

never judge a man before you've walked a mile in his shoes. after that, who cares? he's a mile away and you've got his shoes. -unknown

Quahom1 · 02-13-2005, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISFP

never judge a man before you've walked a mile in his shoes. after that, who cares? he's a mile away and you've got his shoes. -unknown

What about the fast runner, who knocks the thief in the dirt, and takes back his shoes? Was he wrong?

v/r

Q

ISFP · 02-13-2005, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

What about the fast runner, who knocks the thief in the dirt, and takes back his shoes? Was he wrong?

v/r

Q

well, if he's running to catch up to the guy wearing his shoes, he must not be too eager for anyone to walk in the, yes? in other words, if he doesn't want folks walking in his shoes in the first place, he should keep them on his own feet.

Quahom1 · 02-13-2005, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISFP

well, if he's running to catch up to the guy wearing his shoes, he must not be too eager for anyone to walk in the, yes? in other words, if he doesn't want folks walking in his shoes in the first place, he should keep them on his own feet.

I'm sorry IS, I was funnin' you. I did not mean my retort to be taken seriously. Please forgive my indesgression.

v/r

Q

ISFP · 02-13-2005, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I'm sorry IS, I was funnin' you. I did not mean my retort to be taken seriously. Please forgive my indesgression.

v/r

Q

no, it's ok. i meant my response to be taken as a joke, too!

peace,

ISFP

Quahom1 · 02-13-2005, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISFP

no, it's ok. i meant my response to be taken as a joke, too!

peace,

ISFP

Ok, great...then can some one tell me where the heck are my shoes?....this gravel road really sucks.

v/r

Q

ISFP · 02-13-2005, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Ok, great...then can some one tell me where the heck are my shoes?....this gravel road really sucks.

v/r

Q

your shoes? i think The Buddha might have borrowed them.... but seriously, do you want to approach The Buddha and ask for them back?

Quahom1 · 02-13-2005, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISFP

your shoes? i think The Buddha might have borrowed them.... but seriously, do you want to approach The Buddha and ask for them back?

He's smiling ain't he?

Vajradhara · 02-16-2005, 11:17 PM

Wordly afflictions are as extensive as an ocean, noisy and clamourous; but they all arise from the thoughts in your own mind. When not a single thought is conceived, you are liberated from them all.

Since it depends on one's own self, how hard could it be? Attaining Buddhahood shouldn't take even a finger snap.

Viewed in this way, it seems very easy; but even so, you must be the one to do it. An acient said, "The moment you produce a thought, it is an object; just don't have a single thought, and objects disappear, so mind dies out spontaneously, adn there is nothing more to pursue."

Those who have good roots will understand this kind of talk the moment they hear it. Those who may be slower should look into it over and over - ultimately what principle is this?

~ Ta-tu

JJM · 02-28-2005, 02:47 AM

Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force. Jesus Christ alone founded his empire upon love, and at this hour millions of men would die for him. -NAPOLEON BONAPARTE

JJM · 03-09-2005, 11:08 PM

You can't bluff ignorance.

-Adam Strantz (in reference to his poker abilities)

01-30-2005, 05:41 PM	#301 (permalink)
icxn New Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3	Re: Daily Wisdom Saying A certain man said that there were once three men who loved labors, and they were monks. The first one chose to go about and see where there was strife, which he turned into peace; the second chose to go about and visit the sick; but the third departed to the desert that he might dwell in quietness. Finally the first man, who had chosen to still the contentions of men, was unable to make every man to be at peace with his neighbor, and his spirit was sad. He went to the man who had chosen to visit the sick; he found him in affliction because he was not able to fulfill the law which he had laid down for himself. Then the two of them went to the monk in the desert, and seeing each other they rejoiced, and the two men related to the third the tribulations which had befallen them in the world. They entreated him to tell them how he had lived in the desert. He was silent, but after a little he said unto them, "Come, let each of us go and fill a vessel of water." After they had filled the vessel, he said unto them, "Pour out some of the water into a basin, and look down to the bottom through it," and they did so. He then said unto them, "What do you see?" And they said, "We see nothing." After the water in the basin had ceased to move, he said to them a second time, "Look into the water," and they looked, and he said unto them, "What do you see?" They said unto him, "We see our own faces distinctly." He said unto them, "Thus is it with the man who dwelleth with men, for by reason of the disturbance caused by the affairs of the world he cannot see his sins; but if he live in the peace and quietness of the desert he is able to see God clearly." - The Desert Fathers

01-30-2005, 06:04 PM	#302 (permalink)
icxn New Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3	Re: Daily Wisdom Saying Yet... Four monks of Scetis, clothed in skins, came one day to see the great Pambo. Each one revealed the virtue of his neighbor. The first fasted a great deal; the second was poor; the third had acquired great charity; and they said of the fourth that he had lived for twenty-two years in obedience to an old man. Abba Pambo said to them, “I tell you, the virtue of this last one is the greatest. Each of the others has obtained the virtue he wished to acquire; but the last one, restraining his own will, does the will of another. Now it is of such men that the martyrs are made, if they persevere to the end.” - Abba Pambo "The Desert Fathers" Obedience is absolute renunciation of our own life, clearly expressed in our bodily actions. Or, conversely, obedience is the mortification of the limbs while the mind remains alive. Obedience is unquestioning movement, voluntary death, a life free of curiosity, carefree danger, unprepared defense before God, fearlessness of death, a safe voyage, a sleeper’s progress. Obedience is the tomb of the will and the resurrection of humility. A corpse does not argue or reason as to what is good or what seems to be bad. For he who has devoutly put the soul of the novice to death will answer for everything. Obedience is an abandonment of discernment in a wealth of discernment. - St John Climacus, "The Ladder of Divine Ascent"

01-30-2005, 06:12 PM	#303 (permalink)
icxn New Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3	Re: Daily Wisdom Saying I remember the years when I was still a boy in that section of the Thebaid where the blessed Anthony used to live. Some older men came to visit him and to talk to him about perfection. Their talk lasted from the evening hours until dawn and the problem we are now discussing took up the greatest part of the night. "There was a most searching inquiry into which of the virtues and which observance could always preserve a monk from the snares and deceptions of the devil and could lead him with firm tread on a sure path to the summit of perfection. Each one offered an opinion in accordance with the understanding he had of the matter. Some declared that by means of zealous fasting and the keeping of vigils the mind would be enlarged and would produce purity of heart and body so as to enable one to come all the more easily into union with God. Others posited detachment from everything in order that the mind, shorn of everything, freed from all the snares which were holding it back, would come more speedily to God. Others thought that what was necessary was to get completely away, to have the solitude and secrecy of the desert where a man, living there always, could converse more intimately with God and where union could be achieved more directly. Some opted for the practice of charity, that is to say, the works of hospitality, since it was to people of this kind that the Lord in the gospel promised especially that he would give the kingdom of heaven. 'Come, you blessed ones of my father, come and possess the kingdom which has been ready for you since the beginning of the world. I was hungry and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me a drink,' and so on (Matthew 25: 34-35). "Thus it was that the different virtues were said to give a more certain access to God. And most of the night was spent in this inquiry. "Finally, the blessed Anthony spoke. 'All the things that you have spoken about are necessary and helpful to those thirsting for God and longing to reach him. But the countless disasters and experiences of many people do not permit that any one of these virtues should be said to be the prime influence for good. For very often we have seen people who have been most zealous in their fasts and vigils, who have lived wondrously solitary lives, who have endured such total privation of everything that they would not allow themselves to hold on to even a day's food or even a single coin of the lowest value, who have hastened to do all that is required in charity - and who have suddenly fallen prey to illusion with the result that not only could they not give a fitting end to the work they had undertaken but they brought to an abominable conclusion that high zeal of theirs and that praiseworthy mode of life. Hence if we probe the exact reason for their delusion and fall we will be able to recognize what it is that, above all else, leads us to God. The virtuous activities, of which you were talking, flourished among them. But the lack of discernment prevented them from reaching the end. No other cause can be found for their downfall. Lacking the training provided by older men they could in no way acquire this virtue of discernment which, avoiding extremes, teaches the monk to walk always on the royal road. It keeps him from veering to the right, that is, it keeps him from going with stupid presumption and excessive fervor beyond the boundary of reasonable restraint. It keeps him from going to the left to carelessness and sin, to sluggishness of spirit, and all this on the pretext of actually keeping the body under control.' - St John Cassian, "Conferences"

02-11-2005, 03:53 PM	#304 (permalink)
Vajradhara Mod ~ Eastern Thought Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Dharmadhatu Posts: 2,667	Re: Daily Wisdom Saying Freedom is a human need; it may even be more than human. I have a cat. People feed this cat; and pet this cat; they give the cat everything he needs. But everytime the window is open just a little, he runs away. ~Tenzin Gyatso, His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama

02-12-2005, 06:33 PM	#305 (permalink)
ISFP Established member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Indiana, United States Posts: 242	Re: Daily Wisdom Saying never judge a man before you've walked a mile in his shoes. after that, who cares? he's a mile away and you've got his shoes. -unknown

02-16-2005, 11:17 PM	#313 (permalink)
Vajradhara Mod ~ Eastern Thought Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Dharmadhatu Posts: 2,667	Swifter and Slower Ways Wordly afflictions are as extensive as an ocean, noisy and clamourous; but they all arise from the thoughts in your own mind. When not a single thought is conceived, you are liberated from them all. Since it depends on one's own self, how hard could it be? Attaining Buddhahood shouldn't take even a finger snap. Viewed in this way, it seems very easy; but even so, you must be the one to do it. An acient said, "The moment you produce a thought, it is an object; just don't have a single thought, and objects disappear, so mind dies out spontaneously, adn there is nothing more to pursue." Those who have good roots will understand this kind of talk the moment they hear it. Those who may be slower should look into it over and over - ultimately what principle is this? ~ Ta-tu

02-28-2005, 02:47 AM	#314 (permalink)
JJM Established member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 375	Re: Daily Wisdom Saying Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force. Jesus Christ alone founded his empire upon love, and at this hour millions of men would die for him. -NAPOLEON BONAPARTE

03-09-2005, 11:08 PM	#315 (permalink)
JJM Established member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 375	Re: Daily Wisdom Saying You can't bluff ignorance. -Adam Strantz (in reference to his poker abilities)

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