Creation vs. Evolution vs. "Emanationism"

[Nick the Pilot]

Niranjan,

I have heard of the avatars of Vishnu before. Tell me, how do you relate this to the concepts of Brahma and Brahmâ?

[Nick the Pilot]

Wil,

The Breath refers to the constant appearing and disappearing of universes. As a universe appears, there is a downward shift in focus from spiritual to material (an outbreathing of the Breath). As the universe begins its upward return back to the spiritual, this is an inbreathing of the Breath.

It is from this Breath that all things manifest. So, then, the Breath becomes a stone (with a lot of steps left out for brevity).

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

Niranjan,

I have heard of the avatars of Vishnu before. Tell me, how do you relate this to the concepts of Brahma and Brahmâ?

And what has the avatars of Vishnu has to do with Brahma ? And what is "Brahmâ" ! Do you mean to say Brahman?

[Nick the Pilot]

Niranjan,

Vishnu and Brahma are both part of my belief system. I was just wondering how they both fit into yours.

Brahma is another spelling for Brahman in my belief system. In my belief system, there is a big difference between Brahma and Brahmâ (thus the spelling distinction). I was wondering if your belief system had the same difference.

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

Niranjan,

Vishnu and Brahma are both part of my belief system. I was just wondering how they both fit into yours.

Brahma is another spelling for Brahman in my belief system. In my belief system, there is a big difference between Brahma and Brahmâ (thus the spelling distinction). I was wondering if your belief system had the same difference.

And what do you mean my and yours belief system, it is one and the same to everyone .

GOD ---- Generator ( Brahma) , Operator( Vishnu), Destroyer(Shiva)

The trinity is a manifestation of the supreme impersonal Being Brahman and hence they are one and the same in essence.

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

Niranjan,


Consider, also, the following excerpts from The Code of Manu, on evolution ... regarding the progression of Spirit (Life) through the various material forms:

"The first germ of life was developed by water and heat" (Manu, book i., sloka 8).

"Water ascends toward the sky in vapors; from the sun it descends in rain, from the rain are born the plants, and from the plants, animals" (book iii., sloka 76).

"Each being acquires the qualities of the one which immediately precedes it, in such a manner that the farther a being gets away from the primal atom of its series, the more he is possessed of qualities and perfections" (book i., sloka 20).

"Man will traverse the universe, gradually ascending, and passing through the rocks, the plants, the worms, insects, fish, serpents, tortoises, wild animals, cattle, and higher animals. . . . Such is the inferior degree"(Ibid.).

"These are the transformations declared, from the plant up to Brahma, which have to take place in his world" (Ibid.).

This is exactly what the Kabbalistic Zohar tells us, by the way:

"The Breath becomes a stone; the stone, a plant; the plant, an animal; the animal, a man; the man, a spirit; and the spirit, a god."

The Code of Manu, of course, is an ancient source. Darwinin Evolution was proposed when exactly?

Thanks for the info, pal.

[_Z_]

mind if i jump in here

i think that nothing comes from nothing, that there is a blueprint for everything that exists. there are two theories for this;

1. that everything was set in motion according to this blueprint and from before the universe existed.

2. that all things have potential in the aether, as they develop they take from the source or the blueprint.

so its probably both. atheists would say neither but that makes no sense, we are asked to ‘believe’ that the universe simply popped out of nowhere, maybe merlin the magician is an alien from another dimension and he did it with his magic wand!

.

[not666or777]

Really would there really be a divine entity that would rule over our evolution…

What everyone forgets is that we, I mean humans; have only been around for a little while….

I mean a little while!!!!!!!!!!

I mean no time at all.. we are only a spec on what could be the life of the earth… we are nothing…

why on “gods green earth” would there be something about us!!!!!!!!!!!!

When we are nothing but little tiny ants in the universe…

And by the way, I don’t hesitate to kill an ant, or by there means, a whole civilization of ants… in fact I would prefer to kill as many ants that are invading my house as possible. But, what does that mean to me? Well simply it means nothing, and for the rest of my life I will be killing millions of ants, insects, eating animals, and my government will be responsible for killing all kinds of people, which I will be a part of.

So divine is nothing when it comes to evolution…

People say that there may one day be an end of polar bears and we should care!!!!!! And we do but why…… I can say that millions of millions of animals have come and gone on “gods green earth” so what does it matter if a stupid bear that had white hair goes away….

Is that past of gods plan. No Fudging way. That is the way the earth works…


Long live Darwin and evolution

Thanks

And by the way you will remember as much when you die as when before you were born, which is surprisingly nothing…

So don’t fret child… I love religion and I don’t know why!!!!

[dauer]

why on “gods green earth” would there be something about us!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why not?

And by the way, I don’t hesitate to kill an ant, or by there means, a whole civilization of ants… in fact I would prefer to kill as many ants that are invading my house as possible. But, what does that mean to me? Well simply it means nothing, and for the rest of my life I will be killing millions of ants, insects, eating animals, and my government will be responsible for killing all kinds of people, which I will be a part of.

Why wouldn't you hesitate to kill an ant? Are the actions of your gov't justification for killing millions of ants? You sound angsty.

So divine is nothing when it comes to evolution…

How do you know?

Is that past of gods plan. No Fudging way. That is the way the earth works…

Why can't it be both?

I love religion and I don’t know why!!!!

Are you hungry for meaning or purpose or an understanding that goes beyond the limitations of the intellect? Any of those, if they apply, could be reasons why.

[Impqueen]

Personally I believe in evolution, and I don't believe that the divine/the gods are creators of the universe but part of it. Although it may be that divine energy started off the big bang, I don't believe in a 'plan'.

This is an area of my belief I'm still figgerin' out the details for though....

[Nick the Pilot]

Hi, Imp, and welcome to the Forum.

You said you do not believe in a plan. It seems to me some kind of organization and guidance would be necessary, in order to explain the progress we have made. The natural tendence of nature is to move towards a state of entropy, yet we seem to be moving in the opposite direction. Does that make sense to you?

[Impqueen]

In terms of life the organisation is provided by the process of evolution itself. In terms of the universe in general I'm afraid I'm not an astrophysicist . However, according to my partner who's a science teacher ... "The concept that the world is naturally moving towards a more entropic state is only relevant when talking about energy levels at a molecular level. The fact that energy tends to disperse doesn't rule out the possibility of a universe that contains pockets of relative order, as long as you except that all the energy is following the laws of thermodynamics and spreading out where possible." Or something like that... Entropy =/= Chaos

[Nick the Pilot]

"The concept that the world is naturally moving towards a more entropic state is only relevant when talking about energy levels at a molecular level."

--> I see no reason to make this assumption. It seems to me entropy should be just as valid at the cosmic level as it is at the sub-atomic level. The birth of galaxies, according to the idea of entropy, should never happen. Yet new galaxies are being born all the time, instead of dispersing their energy.

[bgruagach]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

"The concept that the world is naturally moving towards a more entropic state is only relevant when talking about energy levels at a molecular level."

--> I see no reason to make this assumption. It seems to me entropy should be just as valid at the cosmic level as it is at the sub-atomic level. The birth of galaxies, according to the idea of entropy, should never happen. Yet new galaxies are being born all the time, instead of dispersing their energy.

Astrophysics and atomic physics don't require either a Plan nor a Planner.

[Impqueen]

My understanding of entropy is distinctly incomplete, as I said I'm no scientist. However different laws do apply at different scales - the intermolecular forces for example are huge at intermolecular levels and insignificant at galaxy levels, the reverse is true for gravity.

What do you understand by 'entropy'? I tried looking it up on Wikipedia and, frankly, couldn't see how it applied to your argument, and my partner's explanations haven't helped much either....