Creation in the Mind of God

WHKeith · 11-13-2003, 03:54 PM

Greetings, all!

I wonder if you good folks could help me with a research question? The subject might also spark an interesting discussion.

I have in my cluttered toybox of a memory the recollection of a pholosophical/theological idea--that we and all of creation exist from instant to instant within the mind of God, and that should He ever forget us, we'll cease to exist.

The idea is poetic and also prescient, given some of the wilder speculations within modern quantum physics, and I'd like to refer to it in the book I'm now writing. Unfortunately, I can't for the life of me remember who suggested it, or even which religious tradition it comes from. The idea sounds a little like Thomas Aquinas on one of his fluffier days, and it also sounds distinctly Hindu, with creation existing moment to moment in the mind of Brahman.

Has anyone run into this idea? Can anyone point me at a source?

Thanks so much!

Susma Rio Sep · 11-13-2003, 11:40 PM

If God, then everything or nothing but God.

If not God, then nothing but everything is God.

Thus speaks Dr. Susma, from the University of Hardknocks.

I think you are in the right track. Everything is in the mind of God, and since in God there is no distinction of mind of God and God Himself, so God is all His mind. And since there is no distinction between what is in His mind and His mind, then we are all God and God is all in all.

The conclusion seems unchallengeable.

My personal concern is with my own conscious existence. Even though it seems inexorably conclusive that we are all parts and parcels of God; nonetheless I am quite attached to my own here and now conscious existence. And I would like to possess that conscious existence even after this earthly life.

Does science and techology hold the key? I am inclined to think so; but I won't around, sad to say.

Susma Rio Sep

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine · 11-16-2003, 02:01 AM

WHKeith,

I think Vajradhara has posted one of the Eastern "ideas" concerning your question (the one you have already posted) in one of the other threads (sorry for being so brusque, but I've been up since 5.00 this morning and my brain is crashing.) I think she'd be more than happy to give you specifics.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine (who wants to "open up" an apartment in her complex by "removing" a neighbor)

Thomas · 11-24-2003, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHKeith

The idea sounds a little like Thomas Aquinas on one of his fluffier days, and it also sounds distinctly Hindu, with creation existing moment to moment in the mind of Brahman.

Definitely not Christian, I would say. Nor any of the People of the Book.\

Although we do hold that we continue to exist because God holds us in being, this is because God is the source of being as such. But we neverthess hold that we do 'exist' and are not simply dreams or ideas.

It is propounded in some eastern philosophies, but I would endeavour to track it to its souce, and relevant commentary, as many of these propositions get subtley altered as they travel west.

Christian arguments runs along the line of:

1 - If in the mind of God alone, then nothing possesses any intrinsic reality, or individuality, and thus the whole premise of 'being' is meaningless and you might as well sit back and put your feet up.

2 - If in the mind of God, why suffering? What pleasure does God derive from imagining a creation that suffers? And what does that say about God? (The notion that suffering is our perception is again meaningless because we have no perception)

Thomas.

The Fool · 11-25-2003, 02:14 PM

Something about all this sounds like it may be related to Platonist/ Neo-Platonist Christian philosophy in the earlier centuries - especially under people like Augustine (the 4th century one)? Not an area I'm well read on, though.

Nobody · 12-15-2003, 03:06 AM

The idea you are asking about might be from "The Science Of Mind"
by Ernest Holmes. I think it goes something like this," God is Mind
and whatever God thinks into it,it becomes" anyway it goes something
like that. The idea is that God only has to think and it becomes !
This concept is most intriguing, it provides a theory that God contains
All Creation within Himself and the entire universe contains something
of the Creator's Hidden Names. When thinking on the new "M" theory
as expressed by Ed Witten I imagine that there is something which
reveals part of the Creator's hidden nature in Quantum Mechanics,
maybe not but still possible.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine · 12-15-2003, 09:06 PM

Zdrastvuitsye, hola, shalom, salaam, Dia dhuit, namastar ji, hej, konnichiwa, squeak, meow, :wave: to Nobody.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

Nobody · 12-16-2003, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

Zdrastvuitsye, hola, shalom, salaam, Dia dhuit, namastar ji, hej, konnichiwa, squeak, meow, :wave: to Nobody.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

Waving back with a smile.

I, Brian · 12-16-2003, 08:17 AM

Yes, welcome to CR, Nobody.

Quite a famous name you have there.

And hope Bill sees this topic soon - he'll be glad for the direct answer, methinks.

WHKeith · 12-16-2003, 02:17 PM

Yes, Nobody. Didn't you have a run-in once with a fellow named Polyphemous?

Okay, everyone! Got it! Finally! The idea of creation going on from moment to moment appears to have originated with Thomas Aquinas. I'm still looking for a specific cite, but the answer was good ol' St. Tom. Neo-Platonist is right, Friend Fool!

Thanks for your input, everyone.

I, Brian · 12-16-2003, 05:59 PM

Heh, glad you found it. Aquinas, eh? One of your targeted suspects in the first place.

Nobody · 12-17-2003, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHKeith

Yes, Nobody. Didn't you have a run-in once with a fellow named Polyphemous?

Okay, everyone! Got it! Finally! The idea of creation going on from moment to moment appears to have originated with Thomas Aquinas. I'm still looking for a specific cite, but the answer was good ol' St. Tom. Neo-Platonist is right, Friend Fool!

Thanks for your input, everyone.

"Nobody,knows nobody"

bananabrain · 12-17-2003, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Definitely not Christian, I would say. Nor any of the People of the Book.

er, that's not really the case. kabbalistic ideas definitely touch on this concept. in fact, the lurianic idea of the universe somehow existing "inside" G!D are extremely similar to those expressed in hinduism. similar ideas have come into islamic mysticism via sufi orders.

b'shalom

bananabrain

Nobody · 12-17-2003, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bananabrain

er, that's not really the case. kabbalistic ideas definitely touch on this concept. in fact, the lurianic idea of the universe somehow existing "inside" G!D are extremely similar to those expressed in hinduism. similar ideas have come into islamic mysticism via sufi orders.

b'shalom

bananabrain

Not sure who you are addressing but I am replying just in
case. Inside God as I used it was only as a reference
and not as a fact. How could I or anyone else know whether
it's here or there or anywhere else, thus some reference is
used for the sake of expressing one's idea.
Anyway,thank you for sharing your opinion, I could have used
a better reference, but couldn't think of one without going into
great detail.
Sincerely,
Nobody

Vajradhara · 12-17-2003, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bananabrain

er, that's not really the case. kabbalistic ideas definitely touch on this concept. in fact, the lurianic idea of the universe somehow existing "inside" G!D are extremely similar to those expressed in hinduism. similar ideas have come into islamic mysticism via sufi orders.

b'shalom

bananabrain

Namaste bb,

yep... pretty similar... though... it's not inside the mind of God, per se, rather.. God is everything.. anything that you see, think or conceive, is, in fact God

agreed. the Sufi order is one of the areas in which Buddhists and Muslims are able to build common ground and generate respect and tolerance for each others beliefs.

11-13-2003, 03:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
WHKeith Established member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 201	Creation in the Mind of God Greetings, all! I wonder if you good folks could help me with a research question? The subject might also spark an interesting discussion. I have in my cluttered toybox of a memory the recollection of a pholosophical/theological idea--that we and all of creation exist from instant to instant within the mind of God, and that should He ever forget us, we'll cease to exist. The idea is poetic and also prescient, given some of the wilder speculations within modern quantum physics, and I'd like to refer to it in the book I'm now writing. Unfortunately, I can't for the life of me remember who suggested it, or even which religious tradition it comes from. The idea sounds a little like Thomas Aquinas on one of his fluffier days, and it also sounds distinctly Hindu, with creation existing moment to moment in the mind of Brahman. Has anyone run into this idea? Can anyone point me at a source? Thanks so much!

11-13-2003, 11:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
Susma Rio Sep Executive Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 817	if God, then everything If God, then everything or nothing but God. If not God, then nothing but everything is God. Thus speaks Dr. Susma, from the University of Hardknocks. I think you are in the right track. Everything is in the mind of God, and since in God there is no distinction of mind of God and God Himself, so God is all His mind. And since there is no distinction between what is in His mind and His mind, then we are all God and God is all in all. The conclusion seems unchallengeable. My personal concern is with my own conscious existence. Even though it seems inexorably conclusive that we are all parts and parcels of God; nonetheless I am quite attached to my own here and now conscious existence. And I would like to possess that conscious existence even after this earthly life. Does science and techology hold the key? I am inclined to think so; but I won't around, sad to say. Susma Rio Sep

12-15-2003, 03:06 AM	#6 (permalink)
Nobody New Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 5	To WHKeith The idea you are asking about might be from "The Science Of Mind" by Ernest Holmes. I think it goes something like this," God is Mind and whatever God thinks into it,it becomes" anyway it goes something like that. The idea is that God only has to think and it becomes ! This concept is most intriguing, it provides a theory that God contains All Creation within Himself and the entire universe contains something of the Creator's Hidden Names. When thinking on the new "M" theory as expressed by Ed Witten I imagine that there is something which reveals part of the Creator's hidden nature in Quantum Mechanics, maybe not but still possible.

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11-16-2003, 02:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine Junior Moderator, Intro Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 932	WHKeith, I think Vajradhara has posted one of the Eastern "ideas" concerning your question (the one you have already posted) in one of the other threads (sorry for being so brusque, but I've been up since 5.00 this morning and my brain is crashing.) I think she'd be more than happy to give you specifics. Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine (who wants to "open up" an apartment in her complex by "removing" a neighbor)

11-25-2003, 02:14 PM	#5 (permalink)
The Fool spare alias Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 106	Something about all this sounds like it may be related to Platonist/ Neo-Platonist Christian philosophy in the earlier centuries - especially under people like Augustine (the 4th century one)? Not an area I'm well read on, though.

12-15-2003, 09:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine Junior Moderator, Intro Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 932	Zdrastvuitsye, hola, shalom, salaam, Dia dhuit, namastar ji, hej, konnichiwa, squeak, meow, :wave: to Nobody. Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

12-16-2003, 08:17 AM	#9 (permalink)
I, Brian Soul Rebel Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Highlands of Scotland Posts: 4,604	Yes, welcome to CR, Nobody. Quite a famous name you have there. And hope Bill sees this topic soon - he'll be glad for the direct answer, methinks.

12-16-2003, 02:17 PM	#10 (permalink)
WHKeith Established member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 201	Yes, Nobody. Didn't you have a run-in once with a fellow named Polyphemous? Okay, everyone! Got it! Finally! The idea of creation going on from moment to moment appears to have originated with Thomas Aquinas. I'm still looking for a specific cite, but the answer was good ol' St. Tom. Neo-Platonist is right, Friend Fool! Thanks for your input, everyone.

12-16-2003, 05:59 PM	#11 (permalink)
I, Brian Soul Rebel Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Highlands of Scotland Posts: 4,604	Heh, glad you found it. Aquinas, eh? One of your targeted suspects in the first place.