Conversion Help!

[confused]

Hi,

I am another person thinking about converting, but to be honest, I'm scared to death just because converting to a religion is kind of a big deal and I don't want to make the wrong choice, and I don't want to be rejected by members within that religious community. Presently, I feel like I have a personal relationship with G-d with which I'm comfortable and extremely happy, but I would be even more satisfied if I could find a community and a way of life that would support this. I have several questions about converting and about Judaism in general still, and I thought that this might be a good place to come for answers...

What are the main specific ways in which Reform and Orthodox Judaism are different? I've read some on this and I know that Reform is more liberal and Orthodox is more conservative, if you will, but still I'm a little unclear on the specific aspects of this.

What is the conversion process like? I know it's difficult, but again I lack knowledge of the specifics.

If I choose to convert, will I likely be viewed as an outsider? Will I be treated with the same respect as someone who was born a Jew?

Are there perscribed gender roles in Judaism, and if so, what are they and how closely are they expected to be followed?

I read that Judaism is very family-oriented. Will I be looked down upon if I don't particularly want to start a family someday?

I think that's all the questions I can think of at the moment, though it is late and I might be back again with more if my questions are not bothering anyone too much. Much thanks to anyone who takes time to reply!

[dauer]

Hi confused.

I will see if I can help clarify some of your questions.

Reform Judaism and Orthodox Judaism are two of a number of Jewish denominations that also include Conservative, Humanist, Reconstructionist and sometimes Renewal.

Orthodox Judaism adheres strictly to traditional Jewish jurisprudence and thus with Orthodoxy there is a greater adherence to beliefs and practices as well as tendency to create fences that guard against potentially violating a commandment. However, it's very diverse and in the most liberal cases there will be times when seating between different sexes in shul is not separate. The religious authority are the rabbis who rule based on previous rulings and established methods of extrapolation of legal issues. I will include a link after I've briefly described the other movements that will go into more detail about each of them.

Conservative Judaism generally holds that one should adhere to as many mitzvot as one is comfortable with. A couple years ago I read something on their website that advised adopting one new mitzvah each year. Like al of the movements other than Orthodoxy, it accepts modern approaches to understanding sacred texts as valid alongside traditional approaches. Authority in Conservative Judaism is also with the rabbi who makes rulings based on the decisions of Conservative Judaism's rabbinic assembly, which itself makes rulings based on an understanding of contemporary issues and approaches as well as traditional sources and traditional approaches.

Reform places authority upon the individual, such that the mitzvot are entirely elective (although they do encourage exploration of them and potentially observance.) Lately they've taken a turn toward tradition. Classical Reform, which was almost anti- religiosity, is going the way of the dinosaur.

Reconstructionist Judaism places authority upon the community, that is, there is a general understanding in each individual community of the basic boundaries to the right and left of how a member of that community acts. They hold that tradition has a vote but not a veto and tend to have a naturalist view of G!d. For them Judaism is an evolving religious civilization and the mitzvot are generally held to be folkways.

Jewish Renewal is a progressive mystical movement that is generally both very liberal (if not the most liberal) and very spiritually engaged. It sometimes engages in religious syncretism which has been a hot-button issue.

Jewish humanism is, as the name suggests, Judaism without G!d.

For more information on the different denominations this is a good place to look:

MyJewishLearning.com: Denominations Index

That site is very good and I will likely link to it again in my response as it includes views from all of the denominations.

Conversion varies both depending on the movement and the rabbi. It can typically be anywhere from a year to a number of years. There is much study and adoption or exploration of religious practice. It culminates in three events: circumcision, immersion in the mikveh, and going before a rabbinic court. Again, for more info:

MyJewishLearning.com - Lifecycle: Conversion

It is likely if you converted that some people will view you as an outsider. In my experience this is primarily those who identify only to peoplehood but don't live very Jewishly. It can also happen with some folks who are very religious if they don't hold your conversion to be valid. More information again at the link above.

Gender roles are proscribed in Orthodox Judaism which, outside of the ultra-orthodox, which basically mean different rules for modesty in dress, the laws of family purity (MyJewishLearning.com - Daily Life: Menstruation and Family Purity) women not allowed to count in a minyan or prayer quorom and generally don't wear a tallis or tefillin and not obligated to as many mitzvot.

In the liberal movements there's no separation by sex in the synagogue, women can become rabbis etc. There's been a resurgence of interest in family purity laws in the liberal movements however the majority do not follow them at all.

On starting a family: it depends on both the movement and the people you know. Renewal openly embraces people on single life paths in their principles but your personal experiences with people in any movement will vary.

Hope that helps to clear things up a bit. As a guide to my own bias, I'm post-denominational but lean most heavily toward renewal, recon a little bit, and the neo-hasidic movement which, as at times can be the case with renewal, is not an organized denomination but a trans-denominational movement due to a recent interest in translating hasidic ideas into a liberal idiom and extrapolating upon those ideas along that same line.

--Dauer

[confused]

Thank you so much for the thorough answers, and I'll be checking out the links you have provided for sure!

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by Dondi

And there is compelling, intelligent reasons why the Jews do not believe that the Messiah was fulfilled in Jesus. I have been exploring Judaism for sometime, figuring that since Christianity proceeded from Judaism that perhaps a stable belief in G-d will be found there. Afterall, the Hebrew scriptures came first. It has not been an easy journey.

Originally Posted by Dondi

At times I wonder if I'm doing the wrong thing. I liked very much the idea of Jesus being my Savior, as it gave me comfort to know someone died for me so that I could go to heaven. But I am learning some fascinating things from Judaism that suggests that the Messiah could not have come yet.

Hey don't worry Dondi.

As Dauer says, "it's what you make of it." As Dauer has said about Judaism and Catholicism, I think I would say the same about Christianity. "Jesus being a Savior" has more to do with semantics than a definition. What is a Saviour? That statement is open to interpretation. It's just that we assume it means one thing and not something else. For much of Christianity's history, ambiguities are condemned. Certainties are applauded.

Jews may be seen as realists in this regard. When Dauer says, "Judaism is what you make of it," he's talking about an approach to Judaism, rather than defining doctrine in Judaism (that's at least how I see it), though you may argue that that in itself is a doctrine. A doctrine about how to approach doctrine. A meta-doctrine? It may be that Jews have spent more time thinking about how to approach their faith rather than just trying to define it. Christianity, at present, hasn't been through this stage of evolution.

I've been through quite a journey myself. My views about Christianity have changed a lot too. I wouldn't really be fussed if you went to the extreme and discarded and dumped Christianity, though I doubt if you'd do it completely (from my impression). Even if you did, you'd probably still want to get to the bottom of things and figure out why Christianity happened in the first place. But most importantly, from the thoughts I've had in the last year or so, strong adherence to the concepts in Christianity may not be important after all. The important thing are the goals of Christianity.

My thoughts would be that even if Christianity wasn't essential it isn't necessarily pointless, but merely a faith formed to provide us with valuable insights, insights that when known and understood, prove useful, but may otherwise be unknown without dire consequences. Christianity has its place, but it is only to be invoked in times and places that are appropriate.

. . . and who knows . . . Christianity could well have been a form of "Judaism" that, 2,000 years ago was validly and legitimately a kind of "Judaism," but simply went astray because people forgot its real purpose, resulting in the Christianity we know today. In a sense it may have lost its applicability due to the fact that the cultural conditions inspiring its conception have long gone, meaning that it is no longer valid for us today, or to please some, I would say the interpretations of the present teachers/preachers aren't accurate.

But I suppose that just means it's all the more important to get into studying Judaism . . . perhaps more so than Christianity. I don't believe Jesus ever wanted to make us slaves to religious dogma, and I think if he were here today, he'd be against the way many of us have approached Christianity. Dismissing Christianity and getting into Judaism may even be a good thing . . . perhaps even fulfilling Christianity's original goals.

Christianity is puzzle that I believe few of us will ever figure out, so it's probably more important for you to get into Judaism and figure out what that faith all means, become a Noahide, and perhaps eventually, maybe when your hair is all grey you might have some time left to figure why Christianity really sprang into existence.

Dauer's advice that we are to "make of it what we will" is perhaps indicative that Jews are a lot more independent in figuring out what the Bible/Tanakh (hope I got that right) means and says, more at liberty and are perhaps a bit more intellectual too.

I suppose there's a downside to a "make of it what we will" attitude, as I recall either a thread or website talking about what it means to be a Jew. I think, if I remember correctly, the question was, is it heritage or "I just want to be a Jew?" (and one could ask, how could one come up with a more #@^$^$$@# response than that?) But as I said, the good thing is that Jews are a lot more flexible in the way they use their minds. They are God's creation and they are exercising their minds' full potential, perhaps more so than followers of other Abrahamic faiths.

The other side of "make of it what we will" is that it's all about perception. Could Christianity just have been an "illusion"? By illusion I do not mean, "lie", "false concept" or "heresy" but something that we perceive. Think of Christianity as like a cloud that hides something. Suppose you walk through the cloud and on the other end you find . . . Judaism? In other words, could it be that Christianity never meant for us to seek after itself, but another? . . . and therefore safely discarded?

But anyway . . . as I said, if you can't understand it, don't worry about it. God is unlikely to be angry at someone for not understanding a section of Scripture if they have tried with all the heart and mind to comprehend but it doesn't make sense. I personally would say it's ok to pass Christianity off for someone else to understand, that we don't have to do it if we can't do it. Of course, someone will do the dirty work, and you may revisit it later on because of your "insider's perspective" or affiliation with the in-group. But for now . . . move on. Let it go.

Whether the Messiah (or Moshiach, correct me if I got that wrong) came before or after, I would say, doesn't matter anymore. We missed the point. We misunderstood what it all meant. Whether or not it is all true doesn't matter now. Forget the past. We screwed up. We made a mistake, missed the mark, and therefore "sinned" and so, even if he did come, we have to wait for him again. Let's look forward . . . into the future.

It may sound like I'm saying it didn't happen, which wouldn't be politically correct from a Christian perspective, but I think it's more important to recognise that Christianity has a legacy, in much the same way that Judaism has a legacy. We have to pursue the legacy that's more meaningful.

For now, dare I say it, Judaism is the truth . . .

[Cooper]

Originally Posted by Maitri

I am thinking about converting to Judaism but I feel a little lost. I come from a catholic background and I am not sure I will ever really feel jewish. My husband is not jewish he is buddhist though he is supportive.

I have contacted a synagogue but I am just not sure I am fooling myself. Do I really deserve to be a jew? Can I really do this?

I have come to a point in my life where I desire a spiritual home. Are there any converts out there?

The main reason why I wanted to convert is because I think judaism is more straight forward and practical. It is so fully of beauty and life and hope. But who am I to darn to even ask to convert? Am I just destined to remain a hopeless, depressed, hardly catholic?

If anyone out there have any ideas please respond as I am a little confused to say the least.

Peace,


Maitri

You can also contact a local synagogue and take an "Introduction to Judaism" course.