Clean & Unclean Meats

[Bruce Michael]

Shalom Friends,


Here is a good list of articles on unclean meats:

http://www.zoomnet.net/~bbratt/pig.html

I wouldn't say that you are "going to hell" for eating unclean meats, just that it is unhealthy.

There is more to the issue of pig eating than just being more susceptible to developing diabetes, or swallowing those nasty parasites they carry. (I just heard on the radio about the nature of the sugar in pig cells which identifies it as pig rather than human.)

Of course Christ Jesus cast out demons and they entered into swine. And it is these elemental demons connected with the pig flesh that we don't want to entertain either.

So pig eating has more serious consequences than say, eating a shrimp.

In the East some have gone out of their way to consume the "unclean meats". Perhaps they have a sensitivity to the snake's urine or tiger's penis, and other such "delicacies" that they consume. This is not the kind of astrality that we would wish to have in our system.

I have heard of efforts made in South Korea to ban the consumption of dog meat. Apparently they torture these poor animals to death in a manner to cause the utmost pain. It is thought that this will give the consumer some sort of sexual thrill. All it will do is brutalise the individual- and they have their own torture chamber to meet in purgatory/kamaloca.

-Br.Bruce

[Bruce Michael]

Just to add-

All diabetic patients have one thing in common. They all are or have been pork eaters. Just ask them and they will tell you. The cause of diabetes has been known for thousands of years since the days and lifetime of the great Moses. On page 47 of “Nutrition and Stimulants“, a book written by Dr. Rudolf Steiner, “Above all the eating of pork was forbidden in order to prevent diabetes, since pig meat makes proper utilization of sugar particularly difficult for man.”

Origin or Etiology of Diabetes

[JosephM]

Me thinks... that to him who thinks or esteems something to be unclean ....
To him, it is unclean.
Enough said...

Love and Peace,
JM

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by JosephM

Me thinks... that to him who thinks or esteems something to be unclean ....
To him, it is unclean.
Enough said...

Love and Peace,
JM

Indeed. Eh wasn't it Peter who had the dream of the linens hanging from heaven containing clean and unclean meats (animals)? And wasn't he told specifically, that it wasn't what went into the mouth that was unclean, but what came out of the heart?

v/r

Q

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

This is not the kind of astrality that we would wish to have in our system.
-Br.Bruce

What is this "we" and "our" please? This is the World Wide Web that you are posting on.

s.

[China Cat Sunflower]

All diabetic patients have one thing in common. They all are or have been pork eaters. Just ask them and they will tell you. The cause of diabetes has been known for thousands of years since the days and lifetime of the great Moses. On page 47 of “Nutrition and Stimulants“, a book written by Dr. Rudolf Steiner, “Above all the eating of pork was forbidden in order to prevent diabetes, since pig meat makes proper utilization of sugar particularly difficult for man.”

My sister has had diabetes since she was five years old. My parents have always been strict vegetarians, and I guarantee you she never ate pork before she was an adult. My aunt has diabetes and she has also never eaten pork. I don't know if it's still the case, but it used to be that insulin was made from pigs.

Chris

[Tao_Equus]

I think you should read a little on the disease before posting such ill informed nonsense Bruce. There are estimated to be around 171 million people worldwide suffering from the 2 main types of this disease. A large proportion of which belong to countries or religions where pork is rare or forbidden.

To be honest I find you method of posting on many subjects to be such that I do not feel like I am engaging with an individual and his own thoughts. I find this irritating.

Tao

[BlaznFattyz]

for christians, christ has already set us apart and made us clean.

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

What is this "we" and "our" please? This is the World Wide Web that you are posting on.

s.

Human beings.

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I think you should read a little on the disease before posting such ill informed nonsense Bruce. There are estimated to be around 171 million people worldwide suffering from the 2 main types of this disease. A large proportion of which belong to countries or religions where pork is rare or forbidden.

To be honest I find you method of posting on many subjects to be such that I do not feel like I am engaging with an individual and his own thoughts. I find this irritating.

Tao

You can post comments on his blog- I gave the link.

I post material from various sources.
From the above quoted blog:
"Again, PORK, animal flesh, eaten over a long period of time in excess of one-one and one half ounces in any twenty four hour period in time is the only and sole cause of diabetes, except those born with it. When the question is asked of any diabetic patient, “ Do you or have you ever eaten pork? The answer has to be, “yes.” The “yes” answer may be tempered with,” I used to, but not now.” Regardless one will always find the presence of pork in this person’s diet who has diabetes."

It is well known that certain races suffer more than others from diabetes, but now it is on the march in the overfed Western world.

Blessings,
Br.Bruce

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

My sister has had diabetes since she was five years old. My parents have always been strict vegetarians, and I guarantee you she never ate pork before she was an adult. My aunt has diabetes and she has also never eaten pork. I don't know if it's still the case, but it used to be that insulin was made from pigs.

Chris

Well, Chris, that particular doctor (a dentist) would say they were born with it.
Vegetarians in Paradise/ Diabetes Diet/Diabetes Prevention

"Many studies confirm that a meat-based diet, low in fiber and high in refined foods, is the cause of the epidemic of obesity and diabetes we are now seeing. Seventh Day Adventists, about half of whom are vegetarian, have only half the death rate from diabetes as the rest of the population."

There's a clue for you.
Control Diabetes With a Vegetarian Diet
Vegetarian Diets for People with Diabetes

Remember the sins of the fathers are visited upon the sons.

Good health to you,
Br.Bruce

[Bruce Michael]

Q:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Indeed. Eh wasn't it Peter who had the dream of the linens hanging from heaven containing clean and unclean meats (animals)? And wasn't he told specifically, that it wasn't what went into the mouth that was unclean, but what came out of the heart?

v/r

Q

A:
You didn't really think that on a webpage devoted to the question clean & unclean meats for Christians, they wouldn't have answered this objection?

The Bible Diet: Which Foods were Created to be Eaten by Man? - Part 1 - at BibleStudy.org
You know that Peter had kept the law:

"I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean."

"what God has made clean, you have no right to call profane (NJB)."

Many assume this means God "cleansed" unclean food, but they neglect to read on to see if that assumption is correct. Verse 17 in the NJB says:

"Peter was still at a loss over the meaning of the vision he had seen, when the men sent by Cornelius arrived." (Emphasis added.)

Note that Peter himself did not attribute to his vision any meaning that God had cleansed unclean meats; he simply didn't know what it meant. He didn't have long to wait to determine the meaning as it became clear as soon the men sent by Cornelius arrived. Cornelius was a Gentile (a Roman officer) who had sent three men to Peter after receiving a vision of his own to do so. Peter quickly realized that his vision meant that he should not "call any man (not any meat) common or unclean." Peter understood the unclean meat in the vision had a symbolic, not a literal, meaning.

There is the clear meaning of the dream. Dreams are symbolic- as this one was.
There are many examples of symbolic dreams in the Bible.

The Jews of Peter's time (including Peter) were so Xenophobia that they avoided contact with Gentiles as much as possible, regarding them as "unclean" (as verse 28 confirms). Peter shared that Xenophobia (an appropriate modern term would be "racism"), and in all likelihood would not have accompanied these Gentiles unless God had revealed to him in the vision "not to treat any man as unclean" (a conclusion Peter reiterated in verse 34). Later, God gave the Holy Spirit to these Gentiles in the presence of Peter and his delegation. What was their reaction? Verse 45 states:

"Jewish believers who had accompanied Peter were all astonished that...the Holy Spirit should be poured out on Gentiles too." (NJB)

Freedom is a very important principle in Christainity, but I say reconsider the old dietary laws.

*clink*clink*,
Good Health,
Br. Bruce

[bananabrain]

with all due respect, bruce, i think you're way off track with this. whilst i recognise that there is a large body of opinion that seems to believe that pig meat is somehow dangerous and that kashrut (the jewish dietary laws) is a form of primitive health drive it has very little basis in fact. even the words "unclean" and "clean" are misleading, being based on translation from the septuagint rather than familiarity with the concepts of "tumah" and "taharah" (the actual words used) themselves, which are intimately bound up with every aspect of human interaction. tumah and taharah are concerned with both food, personal status and the Temple cultus and to be frank, it makes little sense to concentrate on one without the other. i don't suppose you're about to refrain from touching your wife for seven days after her period, or start checking your walls for "tzaraat", or checking whether any of your skin abnormalities might be a "baheret". i mean, seriously - this stuff really doesn't have anything to do with anyone other than us!

there is no intrinsic "tumah" in a pig. "tumah" is connected to death, thus the primary source of "tumah" is a dead body, whether of a person or an animal. food is of course dead by the time we eat it, or at least is if it's kosher. and the kashrut laws, of course, only apply to jews. non-jews are not obliged to keep kosher. you can eat what you like as long as it isn't a limb from an animal that's still alive. a pig is not intrinsically "tumah", as i've said - if you look at the text itself, it says "it shall be tumah TO YOU" - the "you" of course being the jewish people. if you ignore that bit then there's a whole bunch of stuff you're going to be wrong about.

i hate to burst your bubble, but all this stuff about trichinosis, tapeworms and diabetes is just complete nonsense. you get tapeworms from a beef diet (ask the ethiopians) and there are plenty of 100% kashrut-observant jews with diabetes, to say nothing about vegetarian hindus! i can't believe people repeat this stuff.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Bruce Michael]

Peace Bananabrain,
> whilst i recognise that there is a large body of opinion that seems to >believe that pig meat is somehow dangerous and that kashrut (the jewish >dietary laws) is a form of primitive health drive it has very little basis in >fact.
Well yes the truth always rests on facts, doesn't it? You might accept those facts or not- that is your business. One thing I do know is that many Christians, the Jews and the Muslims, all agree that pig eating is a disgusting practice.

You assume that the laws of Leviticus are part of a "primitive health drive". But I don't see a reference to that in Leviticus. Good health may have been a by-product, but that is not the reason for the laws.

Granted, there are not reasons given for the laws- but that was then and this is now. These days we need good reasons, then we think about it and decide whether we should go ahead and practice those laws or not.


> i don't suppose you're about to refrain from touching your wife for seven >days after her period, or start checking your walls for "tzaraat", or >checking whether any of your skin abnormalities might be a "baheret". i >mean, seriously - this stuff really doesn't have anything to do with >anyone other than us!

As I said we need to know the spiritual reasons of why these things were given out as laws in the first place. You are assuming it was just for mundane reasons.

>there is no intrinsic "tumah" in a pig. "tumah" is connected to death, thus >the primary source of "tumah" is a dead body, whether of a person or an >animal.

Oh yes there is. The pig does not appear to exhibit an evil nature.

They are intelligent, and quite compatible with human beings. Look at the back of your hand and see how much it looks like pigskin. Our friend the pig also is recognized in medical science, as having organs which are quite close to the human.
In strict terms the boar is a far distant relative to the pig.


Why is it then that the pig has been held in horror by Man for generations? One might question whether it is a case of perversion, or evolution, or perhaps even a mixed evolution. Lower entities are attracted in such an indulgence as pig eating, a practice that negates aspiring humanhood.


We already know of the attraction of demons to swine, as a description is given in the Gospels.



>i hate to burst your bubble, but all this stuff about trichinosis, tapeworms >and diabetes is just complete nonsense. you get tapeworms from a beef >diet (ask the ethiopians) and there are plenty of 100% kashrut-observant >jews with diabetes, to say nothing about vegetarian hindus! i can't >believe people repeat this stuff.

While your bursting bubbles you might find that Trichinosis has not been totally eliminated.
And as i found on one forum:

In one of the journals it was estimated that many such brain lesions go undetected or the symptoms are attributed to other causes, senile dementia, Alzheimers, Parkinson's, etc.,

Bovine tapeworm is not such a problem as pig tapeworm:

Tapeworm and the brain

Neurocysticercosis(NCC) is the most common parasitic infection of the brain affecting more than 50 million people all over the world. NCC is caused by infection of the larvae of the pig tapeworm Taenia solium(TS). Pigs become How the tapeworm spreads. infected when they ingest contaminated human faeces. If someone ingests diseased (measly) pork meat containing larva forms of this tapeworm or ingests its eggs when eating contaminated foods, the parasite fins its way to the small intestine where they become mature. From here the parasite spreads to the brain to form of cystic lesions, also affecting the eyes, muscles or spinal cord.

As to diabetes, I would be looking at the rates in men of the Seventh Day Adventist church- half that of the general population.

A vegetarian diet is a good idea if you have diabetes.

As to pig eating being the only cause of diabetes- I wouldn't be so convinced as the dentist I quoted. Steiner states that the dietary laws forbidding pork consumption were given to the Jews because of their susceptibility to that disease.

The more compatible an animal is with Man, the less compatible his flesh is to consume, this is a fact.

God Bless,
Br.Bruce

[wil]

It is said that it is more important what comes out of our mouth than what goes in it.

I'd say that applies to our fingers as well.