cicumcision and baptsim

[paul]

i'm sure i've heard somewhere that muslims practice circumicision.

what i would like to ask is why and do they also practice some form of baptism?

[thipps]

Originally Posted by paul

i'm sure i've heard somewhere that muslims practice circumicision.

what i would like to ask is why and do they also practice some form of baptism?

hi paul,
regarding circumsicion, please read this thread.. u can start with post #8.
LoVe aNd ReLiGioNs ... ?!?!?!

[paul]

do muslims only accept circumcision because of cleanleness and because abraham said so?

not that i'm disrespecting abraham, but isn't there more of a deeper meaning?

for christians beleive in the circumcision of the heart, but what i can't quite understand is why only the male of the flesh?

god created man with a foreskin, so surely there must be more to it.

[Zaakir]

cleanliness in islam is a very very important factor and the only religion that so takes bodily cleanliness as being very important part of our religion..would you go out for a meal with your friends or family unclean?no you wouldnt...so would you pray before your Lord (i mean god but i understand in christianity you confuse this with jesus (a.s)) dirty?no you wouldnt...where is teh respect?we regard in islam cleaning a way of removing sins also..if Allah so wishes...circumcission is done for cleanliness...when you wee you have to clean your penis in islam...but normally people jus use toilet paper or shake?if you have foreskin...wont there be trapped wee?yes...therefore you vamnnot be unclean when you pray...the presence of urine on you makes you unclean therefore your prayer will not be counted...unless Allah decided otherwise

[Zaakir]

why was jesus circumcised?

[paul]

Originally Posted by Zaakir

why was jesus circumcised?

i'll try to answer with my limited knowledge, but this may be a question for the christian part of the forum.

i can understand a physical cleaniness of circumcision, i was circumcised for medical reasons when i was about age 7, if i had been circumcised as a baby there probably would have been no need for this.

i discussed this on another christian forum, and one said how it was barbaric.
but as with me it was a bigger operation having it done being older than if it had been done when i was a baby.

i don't really know that much about infant circumcision, is it any worse say than a baby having an injection?

jesus was circumcised because he was a jew, the question to me is more why did God command abraham of circumcision.

is it still practiced on the eighth day in islam as in juduism, and is there a known meaning for this?

i think circumcision has more of a meaning than just a physical cleaniness, and i don't think it can be said someone is unGodly because they are not circumcised, as circumcision is only physical, a circumcised man can still be a sinner, and an uncircumcised man could still live a righteous life.

i still have to ask, why is it only of the male, why the eighth day?

it's said it represents the circumcision of the heart, how?

i think you've answered by it's physical cleaniness, for physical circumcision removes an unneeded part of mans sexual organ, by of which it is then more clean, easier to be kept clean and free from infection.
the circumcision of the heart, is for sin to be removed from our lives and thoughts, spiritual uncleaniness.

but why the male, isn't a woman also to be spiritually circumcised.
i beleive because it is by one male that our hearts are circumcised, and as the penis is of the male sexuality, of the seed of reproduction, this represents the the one known as the bridegroom, the one who is the word of God, of which is the seed planted in our hearts, of which is capable of reproducing in us all, if we are willing to accept.

for i beleive the reason there are two sexes, is representative of our union with God, the male represents christ, and the female his bride, those who are to be united with Him, a spiritual marriage, why else did God create us to be married, why not one whole sex, which needed no other half, but we are two seperate sexes of one creation.

i think there's much more to this that i have yet to learn, what does islam say of these things?

[Zaakir]

from even my christain background.. i cannot see why god would have to be circumcised...wouldne he alraedy be clean?

[paul]

jesus was a jew, moses as one who was to communicate the law had to be circumcised and circumcise his son.
jesus who came to fullfill the law and being born a jew, it was also needful for him to be circumcised wouldn't you think?

you wouldn't even consider him a prophet in islam would you if he hadn't been circumcised?

how could he have been brought up in a respectful jewish family, if he wasn't circumcised by his parents?

if abraham and moses were required to be circumcised, and it given to them as a sign, if it being a sign of the one to come and fullfilled in christ, then wasn't it much more needful that christ himself was circumcised, and his family observe this tradition?

[Zaakir]

xtians say he was god....why would god have to perform a traditional act, surely He is above all this earthly nature, you cannot disagree as god is so high we cannot imagine, but from what i see from xtianity now i am nt one is taht quite a lot of gods 'nature' is tried to be made human, and more like us, asif He cannot be worshipped unless He was human?

[paul]

Originally Posted by Zaakir

xtians say he was god....why would god have to perform a traditional act, surely He is above all this earthly nature, you cannot disagree as god is so high we cannot imagine, but from what i see from xtianity now i am nt one is taht quite a lot of gods 'nature' is tried to be made human, and more like us, asif He cannot be worshipped unless He was human?

but if God instructed the traditon, if He was to be human wouldn't He as a human perform the tradition He instructed and maybe moreso reveal the meaning of it, and maybe bring it to an end if He so wished, maybe Himself coming as a human completely fullfilling this tradition in His human life?

He is above all earthly nature that is sinful, but He created us in His image He created this world it is not evil but good, for it's his creation and i beleive He does reveal Himself in His creation, as there are mysteries in it pointing to Him.

as you say God is so high we can't imagine, but what if He wants to reveal Himself to us, for in our imaginations to understand Him more and more.
Does God want to hide from us, or reveal Himself to us?
i don't think this can be done all at once, for that is too high for our imaginations, but i do think He wants to reveal much of Himself to us, and i beleive in a spiritual growth, don't you?

God is not made into sinful mans nature, He doesn't become like us, it's the other way round we are to become more like Him.

i don't believe it's that God can not be worshipped unless He was human, but that God can reveal Himself to us, better than any human, Himself becoming human, and being the example and showing us His love and perfect nature better than any man ever could.

for what is the alternative way for God to reveal Himself to us, and what is the greatest way do you think that God could do this?

[Light]

for what is the alternative way for God to reveal Himself to us, and what is the greatest way do you think that God could do this?

God don't need to reveal HIMself to us. The universe and everything within is enough to give us prove that HE exists.

Short example, DNA. DNA the blueprint of every living organism is stored in every cells that makes up a living body. How big is this - approx 3.5 billion information that would make approximately 1 million pages of information regarding an individual. Now, the most advanced computer still cannot store such a size in a device that is smaller than 1 micrometer. If we say that this happen by chance, why don't we try to replicate this in a lab giving it the perfect environment. We cannot even create a single cell!

Thus, we can say that it has to be a conscious creation.