Church of England

[I, Brian]

Has the Church of England lost it's way as a force for moral guardianship in the UK?

Simply that it seems the Church of England seems far to involved in it's own internal matters to really care to project any influence on the actual social changes in Britain - even where it actually has clear opportunitity to do so.

For example, last night a bill went before the House of Lords legislating for the building of "super casinos" across the UK.

Some may view this as a moral issue, but apparently the Church of England didn't think so - only 3 of it's 26 Bishops who stand in the House of Lords actually turned up for the vote.

However, you can bet as soon as an internal issue approaches - such as adoption legislation that challenges certain discriminatory practices of church-run adoption agencies - they'll come in flocking.

So has the Church of England long ceased to have any real interest in the spiritual welfare of the UK? Has it simply become to tied up in itself and internal affairs to really function as a spiritual and moral guardian for the UK?

[Snoopy]

Hi,

At the macro level at least:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Has the Church of England lost it's way as a force for moral guardianship in the UK?

Yes.

So has the Church of England long ceased to have any real interest in the spiritual welfare of the UK?

Yes.

Has it simply become to tied up in itself and internal affairs to really function as a spiritual and moral guardian for the UK?

Er, yes!

s.

[Francis king]

hey, I've been reading in papers today about the bishop who might be in trouble because he accepted a person for a job as a youth worker and then found out the succesful candidate was gay and stopped the proceedings... its a test case, in theory, and will be interesting to see how it plays out... apparently the law says that exemptions for religious organisations from equality legislation is not applicable in this case, and only extends to priests and church admin and office staff, and as he's a youth worker and this position is not expressly stated as exempt from statutory UK equality legislation he has been unlawfully discriminated against and certainly appears to have a strong case ...

regarding ur post though... has the CoE church long ceased to have any real interest in the spiritual wefare of the UK..? I would have to say no...

they have done a lot of positive antidiscriminatory moves over the past 20 years- ordination of women, "condoning" the homosexual orientation of their priests (although they havent yet "allowed" them to "marry"), and they were also quite in favour of conducting civil partnerships for homosexuals. I have always been encouraged to dislike proddies, yet I have found that although on the surface they are more tolerant en masse, of both women, and gays, than Catholics, there is still a patriarchal tradition element within the church who finds change abhorrent, and hopefully when they all die off the CoE church will probably be more catholic than Catholicism ever will be, which can only be of benefit to christianity as it is forced to embrace greater diversity of lifestyle choices of its flock if it hopes to survive...

has the CoE church become too tied up in itself to function as the spiritual and moral guardian for the UK?

I dont know. All I know is.... as an institution it never really figured too prominently in my life before, and I can't see that changing anytime soon, unless God speaks to me from a burning hydrangea and tells me to become a proddie vicar pronto... which aint that likely... being a semi-civilised westerner, I have been influenced instead by Solzhenitsyn and buddha...

[flowperson]

Hello Brothers:

If appropriate please correct a humble colonist for suggesting that The Church of England's problems go much deeper than just its seeming reluctance to provide moral leadership. I believe that its leadership is too concerned with the looming internal schism of the Communion to devote much time to secular stuff.

This recent clucking at Helen Jefferts Schori of the American Episcopal Church for accurately voiceing and acting upon her constituencies' wishes, and by giving the American Anglicans a deadline by which to conform to the wishes of a conservative minority of the Communion or else, the Church of England has demonstrated publicly that it is, at least partially, intellectually bankrupt. And I might add quite bankrupt financially if the Communion decides that it doesn't fit with the colonies anymore on, at the least, religious dogma.

respectfully....flow....

[Snoopy]

"Christian charity Tearfund's survey of 7,000 people puts the UK among Europe's four least observant countries. Two-thirds of those polled had not been to church in the last year, except for baptisms, weddings or funerals - but 53% identified themselves as Christian."

and


"National Secular Society executive director Keith Porteous Wood said the poll provided the "most authoritative evidence" yet that Britain had become an "overwhelmingly" secular society.
He said the survey showed that 40% of the population said they 'have no religion' "It shows that two thirds of the UK population 'have no connection' with the church and that only a quarter 'believe in a personal god', just one of the several minimum requirements to qualify as a Christian," he said."

- from BBC NEWS | UK | 'One in 10' attends church weekly

s.

[17th Angel]

I would not put "too" much on the number or statistic of members... Apparently, I am a CoE member.... HAH.

[mee]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Has the Church of England lost it's way as a force for moral guardianship in the UK?

Simply that it seems the Church of England seems far to involved in it's own internal matters to really care to project any influence on the actual social changes in Britain - even where it actually has clear opportunitity to do so.

For example, last night a bill went before the House of Lords legislating for the building of "super casinos" across the UK.

Some may view this as a moral issue, but apparently the Church of England didn't think so - only 3 of it's 26 Bishops who stand in the House of Lords actually turned up for the vote.

However, you can bet as soon as an internal issue approaches - such as adoption legislation that challenges certain discriminatory practices of church-run adoption agencies - they'll come in flocking.

So has the Church of England long ceased to have any real interest in the spiritual welfare of the UK? Has it simply become to tied up in itself and internal affairs to really function as a spiritual and moral guardian for the UK?

yes thats why i am out of there . it is part of the world . by its fruits that is clear to see. i was church of England but now i am taking in good spiritual food from the faithful ones spoken of in matthew 24;45-47 nice healthy food at last

[Virtual_Cliff]

I wouldn't be too quick to judge. There's both good and bad. I remember how during the worst excesses of the Thatcher years, the Church formed the most outspoken opposition to the most damaging policies, giving moral authority to the Lords to block some bills on repeated occasions. Again, going back to David Shepherd's time, the Church stood up for the victims of inner city decay.

Many people in the C of E have an intense distaste for gambling of any kind. I can only assume that on this occasion the bishops decided to pick a battle they could win, rather than railing against the inevitable.

The Chruch can be introverted. I have been at a PCC meeting where we spent nearly the entire time debating the replacement of a notice board. I think all the major religions - even Buddhists - have a tension between the conservative halo-polishers and the more liberal change-the-worldists. The trick is to hold the people together long enough to achieve some good.

But I agree with Francis, if the CofE is still around when the old guard have gone, we could see some changes for the better.

-cliff