Christians are Free to Accept Reincarnation

[AndrewX]

The great irony to me is that people can see learning, progress and growth all around them, manifest everywhere, in the Human Kingdom and in all other Kingdoms of Life, on every scale of Nature ... yet some of us have been taught, we have had it instilled within us, that there is an easy way out whereby we will not have to put forth great effort in order to make the progress we desire.

When this error has been corrected in our thinking, when we can see that every Great Soul that has ever walked the Earth has come through the stages which we are now going through - both individually and now collectively, as a Race - THEN we will be able to sit down at the table together, and acknowledge that it is the SOUL which is learning, as it matures from `the Christ child,' in consciousness, to the experience of `a mature Christ,' as we have seen walk among us several times.

And then there will no longer be dispute over the words of the Apostle, who knew well the Greek Mystery Teachings, as also the Egyptian, and who knew that His Master came honoring both, as He taught.

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ."
-- Ephesians 4:11-13

Let no man over-extend himself or his capabilities, nor misjudge his role, nor fall short of that to which he is Called. But for God's sake, let him learn that the same God calleth to each & every one, and that names do not matter.

As for those still stuck on this simplest of all lessons, I remember the words of Mr. T: "I pity the fool!!!"

~andrew

[China Cat Sunflower]

Isn't wanting to know what happens after death an integral form of the desire which causes separateness and pain in a Buddhist sense? A desire for a separate and eternal life? Why not just go Christian and accept eternal life under its dualistic terms? Isn't it the same? I mean...the desire.

Chris

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Dondi

Or worse, what if you were reincarnated into a skunk? You'd really have problems getting a date, that's for sure!

Nonsense. Skunks are going on dates all the time. That's how other skunks come to be. Only the ugly skunks need worry.

Sheesh.

s.

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Nonsense. Skunks are going on dates all the time. That's how other skunks come to be. Only the ugly skunks need worry.

Sheesh.

s.

Well, Pepé Le Pew did seem to have a hard time ... even if he certainly had the charm!

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Neemai

The whole point of Yoga (or similar paths within Hinduism) in regards to reincarnation is to remove oneself from the cycle of re-birth, not to stay within it. Once perfection is achieved (i.e love of God) then one never takes birth again in this mortal world.

Might I suggest that one shouldn’t use the terms reincarnation and re-birth interchangeably, as they don’t really mean the same thing? Reincarnation (of the soul) is not possible in the heretical teachings of the Buddha, who could find no soul.

s.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

Well, Pepé Le Pew did seem to have a hard time ... even if he certainly had the charm!

Attachment 593

...and poor self awareness perhaps!

s.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Isn't wanting to know what happens after death an integral form of the desire which causes separateness and pain in a Buddhist sense? A desire for a separate and eternal life? Why not just go Christian and accept eternal life under its dualistic terms?
Chris

A veritable lancet of perception there IMO, me old China.

s.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Might I suggest that one shouldn’t use the terms reincarnation and re-birth interchangeably, as they don’t really mean the same thing? Reincarnation (of the soul) is not possible in the heretical teachings of the Buddha, who could find no soul.

s.

My understanding of re-birth is that in every moment we are reborn in the image of our thoughts, actions, and desires. Instant karma. We can shape the dharma of our lives to facilitate becoming who we want to be, but in all cases what we are becoming is the IS that we Are.

Chris

[earl]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

My understanding of re-birth is that in every moment we are reborn in the image of our thoughts, actions, and desires. Instant karma. We can shape the dharma of our lives to facilitate becoming who we want to be, but in all cases what we are becoming is the IS that we Are.

Chris

Actually, Chris, your statement/definition re "rebirth" is a good way of stating the Buddhist perspective, though the Buddhist view is that we don't shape the dharma, but by attempting to live/understand it, it shapes us. In fact from that perspective, attempting to become "anything" is a bit contra-dharmic, though they certainly have ethical precepts they urge their practitioners to embrace. But as to the "is," to quote Bill Clinton, it depends on what your definition of "is" is. earl

[Bruce Michael]

Hi Dondi,
> Resurrection is moving from a natural body to a spiritual body, as described in I Corinthians 15.

Then do you see a difference between the Resurrection Body and a purely spiritual being?

> flesh and bones, according to Luke 24. He even ate fish and honeycomb

Flesh but no bones.


>True, we won't need to eat, but the ability to enjoy it will still be there.

But you won't have a bowel in that body. Unfortunately babies are born like this today- the future model is in place but few are ready to exist like that today.

>Maybe pain serves a purpose down here, but pain will not be an issue in >the Kingdom of God.

There are different kinds of pain. Some can already withdraw from all physical pain. But emotional pain is another thing. If our conscience is finely tuned we can experience the suffering of many others.

It is important that the entire Christian Church embrace the doctrine of repeated earth lives. The old Augustinian model of predestination has long had its day. As an explanation of the different circumstances human beings find themselves in at birth, it is totally haphazard and at odds with a God of Justice and Love.

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
Matthew 5:48

Perfection isn't won in a day or even three score and ten years.

Here are some notes from William Judge on the matter:

"In the first place, it must be remembered that the writers of the biblical books were Jews with few exceptions, and that the founder of Christianity--Jesus--was himself a Jew.........

"........The Jews then most undoubtedly believed in reincarnation. It was a commonly accepted doctrine as it is now in Hindustan, and Jesus must have been acquainted with it. This we must believe on two grounds: first, that he is claimed by the Christian to be the Son of God and full of all knowledge; and second, that he had received an education which permitted him to dispute with the doctors of divinity. The theory of reincarnation was very old at the time, and the Old Testament books show this to be so.

"Elias and many other famous men were to actually return, and all the people were from time to time expecting them. Adam was held to have reincarnated to carry on the work he began so badly, and Seth, Moses, and others were reincarnated as different great persons of subsequent epochs. ....

If readers will consult any well educated Jew who is not "reformed," they will gain much information on this national doctrine.

-Br.Bruce

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

My understanding of re-birth is that in every moment we are reborn in the image of our thoughts, actions, and desires. Instant karma. We can shape the dharma of our lives to facilitate becoming who we want to be, but in all cases what we are becoming is the IS that we Are.

Chris

The fruit of our volitional actions may ripen quickly or slowly. That they will ripen though, is a law (in the scientific sense, rather than a legal).


“The term "kamma" never comprises the result of action, as most people in the West, misled by Theosophy, wish this term to be understood. Kamma is wholesome or unwholesome volitional action and kamma-vipaka is the result of action.”


Fundamentals of Buddhism



“kamma [kamma; Skt. karma]: Intentional acts that result in states of being and birth."

"vipaka [vipaaka]: The consequence and result of a past volitional action.”

A Glossary of Pali and Buddhist Terms




s.

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Dondi

Why on earth would I, as a Christian, who has found that spiritual connection to God, would want to come back here if I've already found what I was looking for? For that matter, someone in any religion who has found God or the Ultimate, need not return to seek Him all over again. It would be pointless foor our memories to be wiped clean after already found the Answer to grope again for the Answer all over again.

Would we not have a choice to return, if per se, we didn't find the Answer? Maybe reincarnation is meant for those who haven't found it yet, or who have ignored it altogether, or perchance they never had an opportunity to seek it either through ignorance, mental retardation, of infant death/sudden death. But in as far as those who outright rejected the Answer, living to themselves only, I fear that the Righteous Judge would be hesitant to send such back to earth lest they be prone to commit the same sins. That would seem a bit unfair to those in the former case above.

I can't believe I am hearing this?! Why would a person leave their comfort zone and travel to a foreign country in a strange land, full of strangers... and full of poverty? Reminds me of a saying... "When in Rome, ..."

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by Neemai

That's an interesting point, and is very key to this issue - Is there a scriptural text this is directly based on?

In comparison, the Eastern religious traditions generally teach "you are not this body, you are an eternal soul" which is about as philosophically opposed to the above as you could get.

Best Wishes,


... Neemai

Greetings Neemai,
Do you have an understanding that the spirit is distinct from the soul? In the early Church there was the teaching that Man had a soul, body and spirit.

What is the nature of the soul?:

one can say how it feels, and that the beauty of such is as a reflection of sunlight upon the water. For this is the reflection from His Being; out of which we have our spirit-spark enclothed in soul.

-The Brothers

I think the argument is won through the reasonableness of reincarnation compared with the "one shot" chance.

It wasn't until a Council of Constantinople in 553, that reincarnation was officially thrown out of the Church.

The majority of Christians today, don't realise just how widespread the belief in repeated earth lives was amongst the Jews.

Kind Regards,
Bruce

[Neemai]

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

Greetings Neemai,
Do you have an understanding that the spirit is distinct from the soul? In the early Church there was the teaching that Man had a soul, body and spirit.

What is the nature of the soul?:

Hello Bruce - how would you differentiate between spirit and soul?

The Eastern texts I follow generally describe:

*) the soul ('atma') which is eternal (consciousness - the 'you' part)
*) a collection of subtle bodies (mind, intelligence etc...) which survive physical death but are nonetheless non-eternal.
*) and the solid body (made of senses and gross matter) which is always changing and ultimately temporary - much like a vehicle you drive within, but not identify yourself with in any eternal sense.

Does this sound similar to the 'soul, spirit and body' you mention, from the early church, or are the terms described differently?

Best Wishes,


... Neemai

[Thomas]

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