Christian Druidry: God and the Elements

[path_of_one]

Yes and no.

First, we know very little about ancient Druids. Historical sources like Caesar and Pliny are generally discounted by scholars because they are essentially war propaganda. The chances that accurate details about the Druids made it into those sources are slim. It would be like reading Nazi German accounts of Judaism and thinking one had a good idea of what Judaism was like. Any time a culture is clashing with another, the odds are good that the "history" that is written out of the experience is more propaganda than truth. Second, archaeological evidence has not provided us with a ton of details either. We know that Druids did have animal sacrifices on occasion. We know they (along with bards and seers) were in advisory roles to political leaders, and sometimes were able to stop battles from occuring. We know bards influenced leaders through poetry and music. We don't really know how the human sacrifice thing worked- we don't know if some people voluntarily sacrificed themselves (as some archaeological evidence points to), or if some people were killed after they showed characteristics later to be interpreted as demonic/bewitched due to ergot poisoning, or if some people were non-voluntarily sacrificed, or a bit of all three.

All in all, we just don't know a whole lot about the ancient Druids. Modern druidry, as I understand it, is something quite different. It is, like Wicca, a recent innovation based on ancient earth-based spiritual traditions with a lot of other stuff thrown in. Modern druidry is essentially based on ancient Celtic beliefs, with a good chunk of Celtic-flavored Christianity, various Western Mystery/Magic stuff, and often a bit of Eastern philosophy. Similar in many ways to Wicca, it is different (and takes affiliation with ancient Druidry) primarily in its more overt practice, emphasis on political influence (especially in matters of environmentalism, peace, and human rights), and differing emphases in its spiritual practice- that is, focusing less on the union of god and goddess (although that is there) and more on nature/the creation itself.
There are some quite different druidry organizations, the two largest being very different from each other (A Druid Fellowship and Order of Bards Ovates and Druids), so I can't speak for all. The OBOD seems to focus on a lot of Celtic cultural and mythological stuff, less on polytheistic worship, and more on an inner spiritual journey. Some of the OBOD historical stuff is idealized, but its spiritual insight and tool-kit, if you will, I find quite helpful. As I understand it, ADF strives for more historical correctness and is firmly polytheistic- it is trying to resurrect the ancient Celtic earth-based religion rather than trying to forge a new spiritual path entirely- at least that's my take on it. I don't think either is "bad," though both are likely to be missing and changing a lot of what ancient druidry was (since we have so little information, and as you pointed out, the culture no longer exists intact). But OBOD works for me while ADF doesn't, because I'm not particularly interested in resurrecting an old religion but rather infusing my Christian faith with practices, myth, and wisdom that speaks to my experience of nature and spirit.

I think the term "druid" now is primarily an outgrowth of the modern druid movement's historical lineage, going back to 17th century organizations that called themselves druids but had even less than modern groups' actual knowledge of ancient druidry.

[bgruagach]

It doesn't seem to me to be very fair to try and dismiss a modern expression of a particular religion because specific things such as animal and even human sacrifice were performed in the historical past. Many widely accepted religions including Judaism and Christianity included animal sacrifice and apparently even human sacrifice (such as the story in Genesis 22 where Abraham was quite willing to sacrifice his son.)

Things that might have been part of a religion in the past are not necessarily required for those who follow that very religion in modern times.

[Wendigo]

I wasnt trying to say people shouldnt be modern Druids; I was just wanting to find out how the title of Druid has changed, and Path-of-One has explained. Religions definately do evolve. More people should be tree-huggers, I know I am.
Path-of-One sounds like he has a good understanding of what modern Druidry is and isnt. Still, I think it can be misleading to those self-proclaimed Druids who think they are Merlin-incarnate (and theres books which take this slant).

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

I wasnt trying to say people shouldnt be modern Druids; I was just wanting to find out how the title of Druid has changed, and Path-of-One has explained. Religions definately do evolve. More people should be tree-huggers, I know I am.
Path-of-One sounds like he has a good understanding of what modern Druidry is and isnt. Still, I think it can be misleading to those self-proclaimed Druids who think they are Merlin-incarnate (and theres books which take this slant).

Path of One is a Scientist. I am an engineer. We both believe in the same Force/God. But we see things differently. And we look at nature differently.

Druidism is in our ancestry (I think), and Christianity is what our families' chose to follow eventually.

Hugging a tree never kept anyone alive...ever.

Druidism is something more...it is in the genes, but takes time to come back.

I do know it is not a religion. It is a state of mind. Or a state of spirit (if you will). And it does NOT conflict with the religions of choice currently...and it does not conflict with Christian faith.

v/r

Q

[path_of_one]

I would agree, Q, that druidry is not a religion (at least not for me). It is a state of spirituality- a being in and of the earth, if you will. As a Christian I may not be "of this world," but as a creature I am of this earth- if you catch the difference in meaning I ascribe to the two.

Personally, I don't think of my Christianity as a religion either. It, too, is a spiritual state of being. Maybe I'm just not a religious person!

I think druidry can be a religion- that's certainly what ADF seems to be under the banner of druidry. But the ancient druids (and seers and bards) weren't a religion, but rather a class of people- an occupational category that had to do with philosophy, science, political advising, healing, music and the arts, and spirituality. I think if you try to boil druidry down into a religion, one runs into trouble because it is more like an approach, a path, a perspective than a coherent belief system. At least that's my take on it. And of course nowadays we don't have the ancient Celtic belief system to go along with it, or the ancient cultural and social constructs, so I pretty much use the term to sum up my spiritual ties to the same stuff that druids wrapped up in their practices all that time ago- the arts, nature, philosophy, education, political activism- stuff that many people in the modern US divorce from religion, I see hand in hand.

The biggest thing is that I affiliate myself with such a path because its way of looking at nature and humankind's place in it makes sense with my own experience. I find Christianity and Druidry complement each other nicely (at least in my own little spiritual world) because each speaks to something the other doesn't. Additionally, my course of study in druidry gives me an approach, or framework, for visualization and meditative work, for ways to combine the inner and outer journeys of spirituality, for connecting more deeply with the earth. Being earth-based and somewhat shamanic (like most paths that are derived from indigenous belief systems), it works with the way I inherently experience nature and spirit. I've read various ethnographies that deal with the spirituality of Native American cultures, and these also resonate a lot with my own experiences. But unfortunately for me I am not Native American and I do not have access to those spiritual traditions outside of the academic world. So, modern druidry, a modern outgrowth of my own ancestors' indigenous belief systems is as good as it gets.

Like you said, Q, I think people often know the same God, but we all are blessed with different ways of experiencing life, nature, and spirit (as well as God).

As for the Merlin-incarnates, this problem exists in every spiritual grouping on the planet. There will always be those who believe they are specially endowed in some way, that they are chosen somehow. Some are, and some aren't, and my own feeling is that the ones who are truly "in the Spirit" (to use the Christian way of putting it) will show the appropriate fruits, including humility. If you've ever done energy work or magic or whatever you want to call it, even accidentally, it (like all things that bring any kind of power and control over your environs) can make one feel good about oneself- "Hey, I did that!" (The same danger, by the way, exists in intercessory prayer and miracle-working among Christians from what I've seen.) But one who is striving for spiritual maturity does not have the goal of gaining power, but rather serving and loving others, no matter what their religion. So if the heart and soul are in the right place, any gifts or skills with which one is blessed will be used in service to others, according to the will of God (or, in other words, in harmony with the natural flow of things), and with caution.

Hugging trees never saved a life, but protecting them could have- think of Easter Island! (And yes, I've literally hugged trees. But that may not be because of the Druidry but rather just because I have a very large kid-like streak in me- I hug everything.)

By the way, Wendigo, I'm a gal- no worries about thinking I'm a guy though- everyone does at first in this forum! It's rather amusing!

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

It is a state of spirituality- a being in and of the earth, if you will. As a Christian I may not be "of this world," but as a creature I am of this earth- if you catch the difference in meaning I ascribe to the two.

Personally, I don't think of my Christianity as a religion either. It, too, is a spiritual state of being. Maybe I'm just not a religious person!

The biggest thing is that I affiliate myself with such a path because its way of looking at nature and humankind's place in it makes sense with my own experience. I find Christianity and Druidry complement each other nicely (at least in my own little spiritual world) because each speaks to something the other doesn't. Additionally, my course of study in druidry gives me an approach, or framework, for visualization and meditative work, for ways to combine the inner and outer journeys of spirituality, for connecting more deeply with the earth. Being earth-based and somewhat shamanic (like most paths that are derived from indigenous belief systems), it works with the way I inherently experience nature and spirit. I've read various ethnographies that deal with the spirituality of Native American cultures, and these also resonate a lot with my own experiences. But unfortunately for me I am not Native American and I do not have access to those spiritual traditions outside of the academic world. So, modern druidry, a modern outgrowth of my own ancestors' indigenous belief systems is as good as it gets.

Like you said, Q, I think people often know the same God, but we all are blessed with different ways of experiencing life, nature, and spirit (as well as God).

!

this is a good post Path
i feel the same way about it. it is just there. i grew up like that where we taught a great respect for nature & the land & animals. they had us planting trees in sunday school, plowing fields & harvesting corn in the boys group, so i think i did get a lot of that instilled into me early in life, yet did not recognize it so much until the last 10 years or so & it has become stronger each year.
it is like all these gifts from above around me that i may have taken for granted & i see the oneness with nature & God & myself the same way.
Really neat things happen.
Fire has been a big thing for me the last three years & each summer i see something new in nature & the elements.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

By the way, Wendigo, I'm a gal- no worries about thinking I'm a guy though- everyone does at first in this forum! It's rather amusing!

Eh, maybe that's because he hasn't seen your picture...

[Elvendon]

Hi there everyone! Path, thanks for writing this thread, it's nice to know there are other Christians with druidic leanings around

I have always wanted to get involved with a more mystical, nature-orientated form of discipline, and I have looked at Creation Spirituality, Christian Wicca, Celtic Christianity and now Christian Druidry. I still contemplating which one resonates with me the most, so I still have lots of questions.

My main worry about accepting an animist/magic/nature-focused form of Christianity is the many scriptural and historical events that have shown the two to be at odds. From the Bible's opposition to augury, divination and familiar spirits to the numerous clashes between Saint Patrick and the indigenous Irish druids, there seems to be many instances of these more shamanic faiths being rejected by pillars of Christianity. How do you account for these things?

I am also interested in the kind of rituals you do. How does a ritual involving the spirits of the ancestors and nature differ from a ritual or prayer involving God alone? How do you pray? Do you take the eucharist? Are you a member of a wider church or denomination?

I know there are quite a-few questions, but I am quite new to this

Peace

Elvendon

[stevemb88]

Originally Posted by Elvendon

Hi there everyone! Path, thanks for writing this thread, it's nice to know there are other Christians with druidic leanings around

I have always wanted to get involved with a more mystical, nature-orientated form of discipline, and I have looked at Creation Spirituality, Christian Wicca, Celtic Christianity and now Christian Druidry. I still contemplating which one resonates with me the most, so I still have lots of questions.

My main worry about accepting an animist/magic/nature-focused form of Christianity is the many scriptural and historical events that have shown the two to be at odds. From the Bible's opposition to augury, divination and familiar spirits to the numerous clashes between Saint Patrick and the indigenous Irish druids, there seems to be many instances of these more shamanic faiths being rejected by pillars of Christianity. How do you account for these things?

I am also interested in the kind of rituals you do. How does a ritual involving the spirits of the ancestors and nature differ from a ritual or prayer involving God alone? How do you pray? Do you take the eucharist? Are you a member of a wider church or denomination?

I know there are quite a-few questions, but I am quite new to this

Peace

Elvendon

See, I feel the exact same way as you do. I believe that there is a lack of ritual in modern christianity. And I think thats what is separating some people from the religion, in search of more "involving" beliefs.

[17th Angel]

"I am Jehovah your God, who have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slaves. You must not have any other gods against my face."

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

"I am Jehovah your God, who have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slaves. You must not have any other gods against my face."

Yep. I have no other gods aside from the One Divine God (a la Christian trinity).

Nature spirits, ancestor spirits, etc. are not gods (at least for me). And I don't worship them.

Honor, respect, welcome, say "hi" to... yes. Worship, no. I respond to spirit entities the same way I respond to human strangers- politely, cautiously, and with interest. My experience has been they are more or less like humanity- some are good, and some are bad, and some are indifferent or shy.

Now, the earth mother herself- the sort of spirit that Earth/Nature is- is honored and respected by me. But again, I do not offer worship.

I offer praise and thanks to many- the same way I praise my husband, pets, students, family, and friends. I offer worship and give my life only to God.

[path_of_one]

Hi there everyone! Path, thanks for writing this thread, it's nice to know there are other Christians with druidic leanings around

Hello! I'm so sorry it's taken me so long to respond! Somehow I missed this thread coming up again all that time ago and just caught it now with Angel's post.

I have always wanted to get involved with a more mystical, nature-orientated form of discipline, and I have looked at Creation Spirituality, Christian Wicca, Celtic Christianity and now Christian Druidry. I still contemplating which one resonates with me the most, so I still have lots of questions.

Celtic Christianity is very much like me. Unfortunately, it was a practical matter that prevented me from it- I couldn't find a Celtic Christian church or organization here in California. I do read books on it and I am very much in alignment with Pelagius. I know he was considered a heretic at the time, but I find his writings very inspiring and loving. Ultimately I went with Christian Druidry primarily because I had access to a Christian church and texts and to Druidic frameworks through the OBOD, which didn't exclude Christians or insist one be polytheist. And you can get a mentor that is matched with your religious leanings, so if you're a Christian they can find you a Christian Druidic mentor.

My main worry about accepting an animist/magic/nature-focused form of Christianity is the many scriptural and historical events that have shown the two to be at odds. From the Bible's opposition to augury, divination and familiar spirits to the numerous clashes between Saint Patrick and the indigenous Irish druids, there seems to be many instances of these more shamanic faiths being rejected by pillars of Christianity. How do you account for these things?

Well, let's take the Bible's opposition to augury and such first. When I looked into the Hebrew and Greek meanings of those passages, I found that what the Bible banned were harmful practices toward others and practices that sought to know the future (and thus not trust in God, but rather in oneself). The Bible is actually very specific about what types of practices are forbidden and what witchcraft constitutes, and witchcraft in the historical and anthropological meaning is not the same as modern day Wicca or witchcraft.

Witchcraft- in both the modern anthropological meaning and the historical one- means (nearly universally to indigenous peoples) a psychic practice that enables the witch to harm others through evil intent. It is not equivalent to magic or even sorcery. Sorcery was causing evil intent through the means of magical paraphernalia, ritual, and/or drugs/poisons. In nearly all indigenous societies, witches and sorcerers are people who are dangerous and harm others- they differ in the mechanism of how they do it and natural ability. Whereas people are typically born witches, they train to become sorcerers.

Our modern understanding of a witch as a real magician- someone who effects their physical environment through ritual, training of psychic ability, and/or sheer will- is totally different from the Biblical and general indigenous (as well as anthropological) definition.

Secondly, the Bible does make it clear that attempting to know the future through any means, including astrology, augury, various divining methods, and working with ghosts (necromancy) was forbidden. However, certain methods were approved for divining God's will, such as casting lots. The Bible is silent on those that naturally experience spirit entities without seeking them and without trying to gain information. In reality, many Christians these days are quite unfamiliar with what the OT actually says about witchcraft and the specific forbidden actions. Many churches "line" has been to tell people that all neo-Pagan, magical, and shamanic behaviors are forbidden, when this is not the case. Nor does it give much guidance to those of us who are born able to perceive spirit-entities in nature (me), or ghosts (thank goodness, not me, but I have known mediums), or who have any kind of natural psychic type abilities. For most of us, turning such things off only comes after learning how to master what we experience enough to tune it out. Otherwise, many of those born with such abilities simply are bombarded whether they like it and want it or not.

So... that said, what is my take on this? What are my practices? Here's a run-down of a few of the common questions I've been asked:
Telling the future- I don't do this. Period. Through any method. I don't want to know; not knowing keeps me trusting God. Plus it makes life more exciting.
Communing with ghosts- This has happened a couple times and I did not want it to. I avoid it when at all possible.
Communing with nature/place/ancestral spirits- Happens a lot. I basically treat it like talking with human people. There's a lot more to this, if you're curious.
Tarot/Runes/Etc.- Not for telling the future. I appreciate the artwork, and occasionally use them for meditation/reflection. I see it as a way to tap into my subconscious and symbols that reside there- kind of like analyzing my dreams. I don't think it's a good idea to lean on these or use them for reassurance or anything like that- that is what God is for in my opinion.
Ritual- I create my own. They incorporate old Celtic Christian prayers, modern Druidic ritual format, thanks to the Earth and spirits of place, and my own poetry, songs, and actions. They're pretty much entirely unique to me.
Magic- depends on how you define it. I've always had some abilities to naturally influence certain things, in various ways. I don't believe I'm supposed to use power for myself- not any kind of power or ability, whether ordinary or not. I can speak to this in more detail if needed, as well, as "magic" incorporates different things for different people. I do not do ritual or ceremonial magic at all. I do believe we can influence physical events using a variety of methods based on our will and intent. Have I done it? On occasion. Was it right? So far, occasionally yes but generally no, and like any sin, I had to confess to God that I misused a gift I believe He gave me. Sometimes I effect things without even meaning to. I pray for God to keep my thoughts and actions pure. I don't think this is much different from people who have great wealth or political power- the danger is always that we use it for selfish or just plain mundane reasons, rather than appropriate ones that are aligned with God's will. I make mistakes just like everyone, and all I can do is try to repent and grow into a better person with God's help.

I don't know much about St. Patrick and the Druids, honestly. I can say that I use St. Patrick's "The Deer's Cry" prayer in daily morning ritual, and it is one of my favorite prayers out there. From what I've read, a lot of the early conflict between Christianity and Druids was not based on theology (indeed, Druids already had a concept of trinity and even Holy Spirit, in a way) but rather on politics. The Druids were advisors to royalty, and then Rome came with Catholicism in tow and wanted to rule over these formerly independent people. There were also major cultural clashes, such as over the role of women and the way marriage worked.

I am also interested in the kind of rituals you do. How does a ritual involving the spirits of the ancestors and nature differ from a ritual or prayer involving God alone?

If you want specifics, I suppose I could post a basic outline of something, like morning ritual or my peace ritual.

Overall, it differs in that I honor, respect, and welcome the spirits of the place I am in, I honor my own ancestors and the ancestors of the place- that is, I talk to these beings. Then I proceed to mostly talk/pray/sing to God. But I do offer a general welcome to the spirits, thanks for letting me borrow their place (especially in my grove, which is a bit of wild forest a few miles up the mountain, and is really not "my" place at all), and invite them to join me in worshipping God. It's that idea that Creation itself glorifies Him and worships Him.

How do you pray?

Lots of ways. In ritual, this tends to be my favorite "formal" type prayers- The Lord's Prayer, various ancient prayers of the Christian saints, and poetic prayers that I've written myself. Daily ritual prayer tends to be, like The Lord's Prayer, general. Peace rituals, which I do once a month as a special ceremony to pray and meditate for peace in the world, are more like intercessory but still formal.

Then, constantly throughout the day, probably like lots of Christians, I pray to God in a more informal manner about all sorts of things.

And then in church I pray according to their ritual practices.

Do you take the eucharist?

Yes. It is deeply meaningful to me.

Are you a member of a wider church or denomination?

Not yet. For years I left the church (though I went to various ones on and off- I tried a bunch of them!) because I was shoved outside the fold, so to speak, on a number of occasions. Then, through the gift of some on this board as well as a family member, I tried the Episcopal church and found a denomination that was a fit. I love the ritual of high mass (where all the prayers are sung), I get all of the art and ritual that is meaningful to me, and yet I am "allowed" to be Christian and also earth-focused, quite liberal politically, scientific, and tolerant of others without being shunned. It's a good fit- nothing's perfect, but this works for me. I plan to join the Episcopal denomination once the local church I have been going to has the new member course.

I continue to do my own ritual as well and I do celebrate the eight Druidic festival days as well as the Christian ones. At some point I would like to also participate in a local Druidic group as well as church, but the nearest one is two hours away.

I know there are quite a-few questions, but I am quite new to this

No problem, happy to help! I think, based on this thread, there are quite a few Christians that connect to God through nature, and are in part earth-based. And then there is a strong mystical tradition in Christianity going back to the very origins of it. I think it is just that these things are not the focus of many denominations today. Based on this thread, I think it is safe to say that there are probably considerable numbers of Christians who generate their own path on these matters, either through their understanding of and participation in their church, mystical orders and paths within Christianity, and/or synthesizing ancestral indigenous spiritual traditions with Christianity.

Peace

And peace be with you...

Kim/Path

[Quahom1]

Alan Scott Card..."The seventh son"...