Caught at the End of a Loaded Gun: A Choice

[path_of_one]

Interesting... I'm in the category of "I'd rather die standing than live groveling."

I have a sense of self-preservation, but I seek to preserve my spiritual self before my physical one.

I guess I'm in the juan et al category.

[InLove]

Hi All--

I'm glad this thread was brought back to the front page for a moment. I couldn't remember the name of it, but it has haunted me a little bit for some reason. I kept thinking about the scenario and all the different responses. Maybe because I couldn't see how anyone would know for certain what they would do. Anyway, one day it just hit me--the reason I had no answer.

I have no answer except to say that I would be praying for the right words to say, because I wouldn't know. I would just have to go on faith that whatever I did or said would be right, and then live or die with the decision.

After I realized what my answer was, I also realized that this is the way I always deal with extremely troubling or dangerous situations, and it has always worked for me.

InPeace,
InLove

[pfw]

I don't know for real what I'd do but hypothetically I hope that when he came back in the room I'd do everything possible to rip his head off and at least die fighting the evil sob. I say this because of the way the 'offer' is put to me-the end does not justify the means- and this group are using terror tactiks to gain world peace? and the statement that his way of life violates something that is totaly contrary to my way of life; I'm going on the assumption that it's something abhorant to me as a person- religious or not. Reality might be somewhat different...

[Prober]

Just curious...did anybody say they would kill themselves before he came back?

[flowperson]

Maybe, as Pink Floyd taught us, compromising away parts of one's life throughout our time limits is somehow compensated for being able to become "comfortably numb" from time to time. Of course that results in one's co-operation with the "turning away" syndrome.

It's all of a piece you see. We vary in differing capacities save one. We are all desiring and pleasure-seeking creatures, and therein lay the kernels of the stories which come from life, such as the Bible.

flow....

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Prober

Just curious...did anybody say they would kill themselves before he came back?

That would be worse than living on your knees... Hmm *thinks* Yeah 100% sure... Suicide an act of a coward. UGH! No, It would be as bad as living on your knees... No... If you're alive you can anti up and do something about your situation or at least die trying.. But to remove your own life as an answer to the situation... Yeah, Suicide is worse... Sorry long day.

[pfw]

Originally Posted by Prober

Just curious...did anybody say they would kill themselves before he came back?

Nope, no-ones given that option yet- not a route I'd even consider myself. Some might say attacking him is suicidal- but at least you've got a chance and if enough people do it... they might get the hint. The worst part of this whole hypothetical situation is if you lie and then break your agreement it's your family and friends who pay the price- you alone are responsible for your actions- that's the thing I find most abhorant in the whole thing.

[17th Angel]

In my post 21... I covered protecting my family

[Faithfulservant]

Jesus is Lord..

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by dauer

You are sitting at home with your family when they arrive. Their clothes in some small or large way are different from your own. They seize you and your loved ones. You don't know exactly what is going to happen, but you have heard stories. You and your family are driven to a compound where you are separated and placed sitting at a bare table in a room, alone. A man or woman walks in dressed in the garb of some foreign clergy, or the garb of an official for a nation or organization that rejects clergy and religion. The individual speaks to you in similar or different words,

"Good tidings, my friend." He begins. "You are fortunate we found you when we did, for this is a matter that concerns your very being. Had you continued along the path you were on, you would have surely been lost to the world. It was a path of lies and deception. But we have come to share with you the truth of this world, and we hope that you can join us and be free from your former life of transgression."

He goes on to describe a way of life and/or system of beliefs dissimilar in large or small ways from your own, but one whose concepts, ideals, and or practices are in some way a violation of your own, whose acceptance and obediance would be a continued transgression according to your current path.

"We hope that you will accept," he continues to say in similar or dissimilar words. "We are spreading our way to all corners of the globe with faith in the creation of a utopia. But if you do not accept, we cannot allow your false path to continue any longer. You will be executed immediately. If you choose to join the correct path and are caught practicing in secret, as a deterrent of such action, we will also execute your family. Our way is not a violent way, but the time is upon us to act and save the world. You have ten minutes to make your decision."

He leaves the room, never having given you an opportunity to speak out. He returns exactly ten minutes later. What do you choose? Why? What are the difficulties in making such a choice, if any? How do you approach a problem such as this?


Dauer

Interesting concept. The choice has already been made. The one in captivity will comply, or die. There is no other choice.

So, the inividual must therefore choose, finality or a comprimised life...or a third choice, if it can be pulled off successfully. If not, then death is imminant.

Even an ultimatim can be used as a weapon against the enemy...

v/r

Joshua

[arthra]

The hypothertical situation is "hypothetical" for most of us and that's very comfortable but in some parts of the world it's not so hypothetical. It reminds me too much of what Baha'is in Iran have dealt with over the past several years or so. Baha'is are not permitted to lie about their Faith or use what is called "Taqiyyih"...or dissimulation, lying about ones religion to save your life. Given this situation Baha'is have either been imprisoned or summarily executed in Iran under very similar situations where they were called upon to renounce their Faith.

- Art

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by arthra

The hypothertical situation is "hypothetical" for most of us and that's very comfortable but in some parts of the world it's not so hypothetical. It reminds me too much of what Baha'is in Iran have dealt with over the past several years or so. Baha'is are not permitted to lie about their Faith or use what is called "Taqiyyih"...or dissimulation, lying about ones religion to save your life. Given this situation Baha'is have either been imprisoned or summarily executed in Iran under very similar situations where they were called upon to renounce their Faith.

- Art

True, but then Dauer could have just as easily been talking about the Spanish inquisition...or Vietnam circa 1976, or China today.


There is no cornering the market on this kind of mindset...

v/r
Joshua

[arthra]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

True, but then Dauer could have just as easily been talking about the Spanish inquisition...or Vietnam circa 1976, or China today.


There is no cornering the market on this kind of mindset...

v/r
Joshua

I'm sure you're right about "no cornering the market" on people being persecuted... That's why I think it's important to share what we know about these things and not just throw up our hands and say.."Oh it's happening everywhere" and let's be despairing about human nature.

The more we know about these things and the information gets around the better. Part of the incidious aspects I think of the Halocaust is that people claimed they didn't know about it... Well maybe some people didn't know about it but there were those who knew about what was going on who chose to button their lips and pass over it too.. and today when most of the people who survived have died and passed on from this world, guess what? There are those who actively deny it ever happened! There is a revisionist history or the rewriting of history..

I've noticed that the very people who participate or collude in persecution will be only to ready to throw up examples of persecutiuons and rights violations in other countries to smoke screen their own complicity even it be only emotional in nature.

Amnesty International is probably one of the best organizations that draws attention to what's going on...

Amnesty International - Working To Protect Human Rights Worldwide

The U.S. State Department also provides regular reports but of course being a governmental body some will discount it...but I find it's reports are pretty thorough and usually accurate.

State Department Releases 2005 Human Rights Country Reports

Human Rights Watch:

U.S. State Department 2004 Human Rights Reports (Human Rights Watch, 18-3-2005)

- Art