can we agree that tormenting people for all time is wrong no matter what?

shadowman · 07-06-2007, 11:05 PM

I cant budge on that one.

Caimanson · 07-07-2007, 01:11 AM

Hi Shadowman.
I don't disagree with your opening statement, but just wondering what do you want to get from these discussions.
I haven't followed most of your posts, but what I see is that you reject these ideas of eternal condemnation but you can't let them in peace.
Are you trying to make people to accept your point, or do you want them to help you understand, or are you looking for group support to validate your ideas?

Not sure if you would like to knock on god's door but are put off by the conditions, or if you want to bring the whole place down. Or is it something else?

shadowman · 07-07-2007, 01:53 AM

dont really know. Im here trying to get a better understanding of christianity mostly. I was raised praying to jesus but I never got the whole story until recently....

mee · 07-07-2007, 10:02 AM

yes it is wrong and the God of the bible does not teach that . but man makes up many things . no man could do enough wrong in his short lifetime to be sent to hellfire forever , because it would be unjust and the God of the bible is a God of justice .

Saltmeister · 07-07-2007, 12:01 PM

I guess we're going to have to find out in the sequel to Before The End of the World As We Know It.

BlaznFattyz · 07-07-2007, 05:19 PM

No. Direct words from Jesus himself speak of hell often, and in the following verses he speaks of it three times in a row for emphasis, and how you dont want to go there, and also is the reason He came into the world--to save us from it.

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

LeoSalinas22 · 07-07-2007, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Not sure if you would like to knock on god's door...

stop, stop knocking on heaven's doo-o-r! yeah! yeah! yeah, yeah, yeah!

forget it guys, he just won't listen.

Tariki · 07-07-2007, 05:57 PM

Let no one persuade you that there is in Him a little darkness, because of something He has said which His creatures interprets into darkness......Neither let your cowardly conscience receive any word as light because another calls it light, while it looks to you dark. Say either the thing is not what it seems, or God never said or did it. But, of all evils, to misinterpret what God does, and then say the thing as interpreted must be right because God does it, is of the devil.

(From the sermon "Light", by Geroge MacDonald, 1824-1905)

In the end we must live by our own conscience and understanding. And seek the strength to do so.

And as the "Good Book" says..............."after death, the Judgement"!

But there are not a few who would be indignant at having their belief in God questioned, who yet seem greatly to fear imagining Him better than he is.

(George MacDonald, again)

shadowman · 07-07-2007, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

No. Direct words from Jesus himself speak of hell often, and in the following verses he speaks of it three times in a row for emphasis, and how you dont want to go there, and also is the reason He came into the world--to save us from it.

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

so you think its ok?

who put it there. why is it there. why do we need saving from it?

BlaznFattyz · 07-07-2007, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowman

so you think its ok?

who put it there. why is it there. why do we need saving from it?

what i think or what you think doesn't matter in regards to it existing, if god says it is there; it is there. and if you know the way to be saved from it because god put it there for us which requires a step of faith and love to accept him, then it would be wise to accept him rather than reject him.

shadowman · 07-08-2007, 01:37 AM

good answer!

its like an offer you cant refuse

soma · 07-08-2007, 02:20 AM

Drawing upon the invisible forces of love we can feel the oneness and see that responsibility, decision-making and optimism all flow together in one universal consciousness, where God is an obvious reality. When a deep awareness of love is established, one benefits tremendously physically, mentally and spiritually because the habit of being positive is acquired, and God is no longer a closed concept, but an infinite vast always present consciousness of love.

God impels seeking through love, not fear and when one sees everything as God, one falls in love with everything, everyone and God Himself. God is not separate from anything; He is the Life of our life, the Reality within our own reality and the Soul within our being.

"Love your neighbor as yourself."

mee · 07-08-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

No. Direct words from Jesus himself speak of hell often, and in the following verses he speaks of it three times in a row for emphasis, and how you dont want to go there, and also is the reason He came into the world--to save us from it.

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

having an understanding about just what this word hell means , works wonders to our understanding about Jesus illustrations . and having an understanding about what Jesus meant by the word GEHENNA works wonders also . its good to know that Jesus never taught that people would be in a litral hellfire , but man makes up alsorts of evil teachings . and people even get to believe these blasphemas lies about God Yes the great apostacy influenced the early congregations in many ways . and many have been misled by it . but no worries the True God would never ever put people in HELLFIRE.
how blasphemas to even hint at such a thing , i am glad that there are a great crowd from all nations who have been freed from all this blasphemas teachings .REVELATION 7;9-10 they are out of the (worldwide empire of false religion) and they have been set free REVELATION 18;4

... NICE and they are learning what the bible .....REALLY....teaches

shadowman · 07-11-2007, 12:29 AM

doesnt anyone see the utter sickness of people being tormented for all time?

there is NO point.

its usefulness is only as a warning.

after the fact, holding people in a state of torment is so so so so so so so so very wrong.

seriously, I cant emphasize the extremeness of the situation enough.

soma · 07-11-2007, 02:01 AM

Our original consciousness is pure consciousness, but it is covered with so much waste we can’t see it. Christ with the not easy to find love for everything reopens the gate that was closed, when Adam left the Garden of Eden with the experimental knowledge of good and evil. Adam ate from a tree that divided the mind with moral evil and, which God said not to eat. Jesus tells us in simple language, “He who loves me will be loved by my Father,” which can be summed up in the commandment, “Love your brother as yourself.” Our knowledge and perception are both limited, so how can we understand a pure consciousness that is unlimited? We have to purify our minds so we can become aware of Christ consciousness and to do this, we must love God and one another. Love and unity will set us free and show us the way, not moral condemnation.