Can spirituality really be taught?

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

Dear Brian

Well a treatment sounds like a healing treatment not learning spirituality as such. Is that what you meant Brian?

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

Probably my bad use of language again.

[Mathghamhain]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Probably my bad use of language again.

I used to study Shiatsu, Sotai & Qi Gong until I got laid off. It is not your use of language, some people do wierd things to be spiritual. Some will pay alot of money to do something they say is spiritual. It goes back to what is spirituality & what do you do to be spiritual?

Is it going to church, doing rituals, prayer/meditation, bible study(or is there another book you would use), studing healing arts(reiki or others), fasting and I know alot of Native American spiritual exercises are just awareness exercises.

Some even study Martial Arts, like Tai Chi or Aikido.

Can spirituality be taught, I think it can but we have to do the homework!

Mathghamhain

[Blue]

Mathghamhain

I agree with all the points you raise, and your conclusion.

---A great first post, not just because I agree with it, but because it is rationally argued and presented.

Welcome.

[bananabrain]

with my metaphor hat on, i would have to say that spirituality can be/is taught just as music can be/is taught.

but:

people must live. living costs money. earning money takes time. therefore it is not unreasonable for a teacher (especially one who's in demand) to expect remuneration for their time. the remuneration may be direct, or indirect - ie you pay a membership fee, tithes, the price of a book, or whatever.

the inner core of spirituality, like the inner core of music (and dance, while we're on the subject) cannot be created where it does not exist; but it can be nurtured where it does.

it is the "homework" that is free.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Blue]

the inner core of spirituality, like the inner core of music (and dance, while we're on the subject) cannot be created where it does not exist; but it can be nurtured where it does.

=====

I reckon you are right, BB.

It all comes down to the skills, however you define 'skills', I think.

A sense of spirituality can be nurtured and that involves learning not just in a selfishly personal experiential way, but by learning the 'techniques' that nourish that sense of spirituality, from a guide who can show the way to further enlightenment.

Is this not what has happened throughout human history?

I am always reminded in this type of discussion of that wonderful little book by Richard Bach, called 'Jonathan Livingston Seagull'.

[Mathghamhain]

Thanks Blue, would have replied sooner but I was having trouble with my computer.

I have seen how people buy things as if to show they are spiritual, I think it has to be something inside & not the shirt you wear. I can buy a guitar but that does not make me a musician. As BB was saying, I can pay for lessons to learn but if I do not practice I will not get anywere.

Mathghamhain

[Blue]

Thanks for the reply, Mathghamhain .

I agree, "I think it has to be something inside & not the shirt you wear." - a good way of putting it, I thought.

[MattWolf]

I think a willing mind makes many things possible. No, you cannot "download" your spirituality into someone else. But you can teach certain internal inquiries and techniques that can help someone find their own.

[Green Knight]

Indeed it can just do the three courses of Landmark Education. I've been a student of Krishnamurti, Carlos Castaneda, and I've read all kinds of books on spirituality and philosophy. Some of the techniques used in Landmark Education courses are akin to techniques described in Carlos Castaneda's books. If you perform those techniques you will be enlightened. You will gain freedom from the ego and live a life bathed in bliss.

[I, Brian]

Hi Green Knight, and that sounds great.

It's just a shame Castenada's "Teaching's of Don Juan" is actually a work of fiction, and "Teachings of Don Juan" at the end reads too much like HP Lovecraft.

Krishnamurti is a good recommendation for reading material, but I think if he were alive today, he would proverbially slap you for claiming that reading his words makes one enlightened.

[Green Knight]

Thanks for the reply Brian. Indeed Krishanamurti would I expect. Of course it all depends on what we mean by enlightenment. But before I go on about that interesting subject. I want to go back to Carlos Castaneda. Yes, he didn't show the note books so we have to presume it was a work of fiction and I have to agree with that presumption. But why don't we put that aside for one moment, forget about whether the works are true or false and actually try out some of the practices in the book for ourselves? Surely that is a wiser approach for people genuinely seeking the truth and wishing to know more about about humankind's possible spiritual or magical reality?

Talking of the enlightenment. I have an understanding of enlightenment as a state of being reached by a soul that no longer needs to reincarnate as it has learned all the lessons needed to be joined with God. An achievement of Nirvana. I also have another understanding of enlightenment as a Zen like flash of understanding or insight. I have yet a further understanding of enlightenment as a freeing of the chains of ego and an experience of human authenticity of beingness. Once achieved whether permanently or impermanently (this depends on how you continue to live your life) the human being now lives in a state of bliss or unconditional love. This was the enlightenment I was referring to.

[earl]

C. Castaneda's works had long drawn the suspicion of them being fictitious at least as to all the stuff related to Don Juan & other characters populating his works. Though as to whether the teachings represented were fictitious, I don't know. Will say that just a few months ago did read a very interesting interview in some alternative mag, (sorry don't remember the mag or interviewee's name right now), with a former student of CC who described him as an enormous con man who ran his inner circle like a cult. Of course, who knows if that was a legitimate assertion, but needless to say if accurate at least calls into doubt how "enlightened" the man was. As to learning "spirituality," well to me spirituality is more a process and a feeling than a subject. There are certainly many techniques or trainings if you will that apply to the many paths of Spirit. But the irony of spirituality is that the firmer we clutch the tools we are using, the more the goal seems to recede form view. Buddha was quite clear that while "upaya," (skillful means) are essential for the vast majority of seekers of enlightenment, if we turn enlightenment into a thing which we then go grasping after, we will be far from it. Along with application of method, there is the equally important aspect of letting go, (particularly of ego-based motivations). If technique alone were enough, (assuming all those shady teachers applied the techniques they hawked), then the world wouldn't have been so populated with true "spiritual materialists/hucksters." Take care, Earl

[wil]

How can we possibly have problems with 'learning' spirituality from books of fiction? Most of us do!

I think that spirituality does come from within, and isn't realy taught, but the books and teachers shine that light within our soul...we shine back...and reflect on everything...some of the stories resonate..some don't...and our spirituality grows out of the contemplation of the confusion that exists in all these wonderful books of historical fiction...

namaste,

[I, Brian]

Okay, Carlos Castaneda has a topic now:
http://www.comparative-religion.com/...ead.php?t=4239

[pohaikawahine]

I believe that spirituality can be taught by the way we live our lives .... we are all role models for those that follow and we don't need to actually "teach", but we need to give breath or life to the values of balance and harmony and love .... by the way we live .... like those ripples in the pond .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine