Can Muslims be friends with Jews and Christians?

[islamis4u]

actually, you have. your comments about "the west" are both disparaging and ignorant. you need to understand the meaning of "fair comment". i am entitled to have an opinion, just as you are entitled to one. if i think your opinion is incorrect, i will challenge it. that is called debate. merely exchanging respectful pleasantries may be what you have in mind, but it would be a) very boring and b) unproductive if anyone is to learn anything. if you can't handle people having a different opinion from yourself, or less than complimentary opinions on your religion, nationality and views than you're not going to enjoy this process at all unless you try and understand how you are coming across. i criticise my country when it deserves it and i criticise other countries likewise. pakistan is no more perfect than the UK, US, or anywhere else - including israel, which i notice you single out for particular criticism, what a surprise that is. this is no place for misguided jingoism or chauvinism.

I thought it is friendly forums but i go to know that we should be aggressive in our approach so i agree with you but i say to you do remember these words okay!! now i understand how to have dialogue here thanks!!!!!
You are saying that you should not be misguided so i think you are misguided okay so i invite you okay and that was the approach you are talking about later in this post!!! Your words conterdict much what an idiotic reply!!!

ok, but just because "you are right" does not mean other people are necessarily wrong - unless, of course, your religion makes universal claims. plenty don't, including mine. and an offer of "help", of course, may be misguided or indeed completely unnecessary. i wouldn't come over to your house and offer you my help on your urdu language skills, because you don't need it. English, on the other hand....

First thing if you believe in religion you believe it is right then okay? If it is not right then it is wrong sir!!! The why do you believe in it!! I believe Islam is right so i call them to Islam and nothing else!! im not beating them im not calling them on sword im doing by words by logic im doing this by and by removing misconception about Islam, One important thing which are we taught in Davah is we can only invite or give Davah but can not impose Islam on them, Allah or God knows best to whom He would lead to right path!! If one religion is right then obviously other is wrong!! If you believe in right religion other would be wrong or would have changed!!! Its not about teaching me Urdu okay its about telling me about correction i have to made in English If you are English because you would know English better then me if you know then it will be very kind for me or how it will do to me if you can correct me about English you can save me from so many errors i will be making!!!! You will guide me to right path do not impose you just tell as you said above!!!
What then Christian missionary do why are they send to us Muslims then?

look, mate, this may be news to you, but outside of your particular little pond it is considered at best patronising and at worst insulting to consider that other people are "going to hell". the world is full of people that think everyone else is going to hell - why don't you nip over to the christian board and talk to our good friend "mee", who is a jehovah's witness. according to him (or it might be her, i don't know) *you're* going to hell, so is everyone else who isn't a JW. frankly, i will take my chances, because G!D Is the only True Judge and muhammad knew that better than you appear to do. i don't need "saving", not by you, not by christians, not by anyone - so i advise you get over that particular approach right now.

It is same as above!!!!!!!!! You are not doing anything but just playing with words and making the topic complex and nothing else you are not replying with any logic!!!

[bananabrain]

Originally Posted by islamis4u

I thought it is friendly forums but i go to know that we should be aggressive in our approach

ok, it's not about being "aggressive" - it's about understanding how to have dialogue. read the code of conduct again. dialogue is not about telling other people they have to change. it is about *understanding*. and with all due respect, i know more than some about islam and the picture you are giving me is just the same old party line which they teach in pakistani madrassas. i *know* there are more ways of being muslim than the way you suggest. i *know* there are more opinions than those you are expressing. your whole attitude is simply parochial. i presume you know the word "pendu"? well, the world is a big place. if you tried to pass your opinions off in a face-to-face environment, you'd simply be laughed at. i'm sorry, but if you're trying to convert everyone to islam, you're not going to succeed, because you don't understand the people you're talking to. and conversion is not the point of dialogue, either!

You are saying that you should not be misguided so i think you are misguided okay so i invite you okay and that was the approach you are talking about later in this post!!!

i am not misguided. your "inviting" me will not change that. i believe you are the one who is misguided. you are under a misapprehension that i need you to inform me about the truth about islam. i do not. i have it from better sources than you.

First thing if you believe in religion you believe it is right then okay? If it is not right then it is wrong sir!!! The why do you believe in it!!

i believe *my* religion is right for *me*. my religion, unlike yours does not oblige me to "invite" or convert other people to it. i experience the universalism of evangelising religions as insecurity writ large. you should be able to cope with the fact that if G!D had Wanted us all to be members of the same religion, G!D Is perfectly capable of making that so. i believe it even says as much in the Qur'an.

If one religion is right then obviously other is wrong!!

look, you're really not understanding something basic about religion, which is that not all religions are the same. and, moreover, it is perfectly possible to have more than one right answer to certain questions - religion is not mathematics. 1+1 only has one answer, 2. but if you say: "who is your mother?", then that has more than one correct answer, as my mother is also my father's wife, as well as my son's grandmother. now your religion says "we are right and everyone else is wrong", but my religion says "mine is right for us and you can believe what you like as long as you are a good person" - honestly, mate, this is basic logic. and, fyi, it's quite easy to be a good person according to my religion, there are only seven laws and almost everyone keeps all of them without even realising. we just don't believe everyone has to convert to our religion, because it's very difficult and demanding.

What then Christian missionary do why are they send to us Muslims then?

because they are equally silly and think that they are right and everyone else is wrong. however, have you seen any sikh, hindu, zoroastrian, jewish or buddhist missionaries lately? no? well, that's because these religions don't feel the need to convert everyone else. in fact, not all christians feel this need either, just as not all muslims feel the need for it.

If you are English because you would know English better then me if you know then it will be very kind for me or how it will do to me if you can correct me about English you can save me from so many errors i will be making!!!!

well, i'll say your english is getting better as you go along, so keep at it!

You are not doing anything but just playing with words and making the topic complex and nothing else you are not replying with any logic!!!

i don't think you're understanding my answers. these topics are immensely complex and for you to suggest there are simple answers to them (which are presumably to be found in pakistani madrassas) only shows that you are simply ignorant of the world outside of pakistan. i am not "playing with words". i am analysing your arguments and showing how they don't make sense. the trouble is you're not actually used to talking to articulate non-muslims, because you've been taught that you have the answers to everything when what you've actually been taught are the same tired old mediaeval apologetics that all fundamentalists spout. perhaps this is why you're so frustrated - you actually think your arguments are self-evident when in fact they are anything but. i really don't mean to be rude here, but perhaps if you went and travelled the world a bit you might understand how much more complicated things are than they are teaching you in islamabad.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Islamfac]

Originally Posted by Dah-veeth

I think the love of God comes first--the first priority is to love God.

There is one primary commandment that deals with Gods relationship to man in all three abrahamic faiths.

Worship God and only him and have no partners besides him... basically.

Beyond that, all other commandments deal with mans relation to man.

of course we all can be friends.

[greymare]

the more friends, the better. i dunno why we are built that we dont just like people first, be friends, rather than form opinions of people we are totally ignorant of. this is just a vague observation of mine of the population in general.

[Cooper]

Originally Posted by Muslimah

Quran is a complete book of guidance and while studying various issues it should be kept in mind that a particular issue may be discussed over several chapters or several verses in the same chapter.


A complete understanding can only be achieved by understanding the whole issue as presented over all the verses and chapters and not by looking at only part of the Quran. God specifically warns us against doing just that, upholding part of the Quran while disregarding the rest.

This is so true. People can take particular verses, use them out of context, to meet their own agenda... which is usually not in the best interests of anyone involved.



Shalom

[Cooper]

Originally Posted by Islamfac

There is one primary commandment that deals with Gods relationship to man in all three abrahamic faiths.

Worship God and only him and have no partners besides him... basically.

Beyond that, all other commandments deal with mans relation to man.

of course we all can be friends.

I certainly agree.



Shalom

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

now your religion says "we are right and everyone else is wrong",

Ahem, I shall put that one down to mental frustration because I know you know more about the original teachings of Islam than that BB.

There is no compulsion in religion, on the Day of Judgement we will be told the difference between us, had G-d wanted to He could have made us one nation, believe in that which has gone before, treat people of the book with respect and argue points of faith kindly ....... I don't need to go on do I?!

I sadly accept that is not what is always taught but you and I know that is the spirit of Islam.

[bananabrain]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Ahem, I shall put that one down to mental frustration because I know you know more about the original teachings of Islam than that BB.

There is no compulsion in religion, on the Day of Judgement we will be told the difference between us, had G-d wanted to He could have made us one nation, believe in that which has gone before, treat people of the book with respect and argue points of faith kindly ....... I don't need to go on do I?!

I sadly accept that is not what is always taught but you and I know that is the spirit of Islam.

i would like to believe that that is the spirit of islam. however, it seems abundantly clear to me that there is a large proportion of muslims that are supremacists and supercessionists. who is to say which of them are the "real" muslims or not? and, from my perspective, who should i *treat* as the "real" muslims? the answer is probably a little of both, so i can probably say that both are real and that therefore necessarily i must treat statements that "all muslims believe X" or "islam says Y" with scepticism; what they actually seem to mean is that "i believe that all muslims *ought* to believe X" or "i believe that Y is what islam actually wants". by me, that's actually all right and it is just as true for judaism from my perspective, also for christianity. unfortunately, it is very hard for people who are ignorant, provincial or simply arrogant to cope with this diversity.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

i would like to believe that that is the spirit of islam. however, it seems abundantly clear to me that there is a large proportion of muslims that are supremacists and supercessionists. who is to say which of them are the "real" muslims or not?

I think this is a key point. Different surveys say different things but it is clear that very many Muslims, if not actually actively supporting, then sympathise with the fundamentalist terrorism carried out in the name of Islam. I personally get tired of hearing that Islam is a peaceful religion. For every verse of peace there is one of violence. Christianity used to be no better, and in some places its regressing to the baser interpretations. But its pointless to even talk really. We can put a man on the moon, transplant a Muslim heart into a Christian, share information instantly around the globe but still the lowest , least rational bulls**t carries the day. My fictional, brainwashed vision of santa clause is better than yours. I really begin to wonder why I bother coming here at all now. Its all b*ll*cks.

Tao

[Netti-Netti]

Hello again Tao. You wrote:

Different surveys say different things but it is clear that very many Muslims, if not actually actively supporting, then sympathize with the fundamentalist terrorism carried out in the name of Islam.

I don't know what surveys you're referring to, but the ones I've seen raise questions about your contentions, especially this one:

I personally get tired of hearing that Islam is a peaceful religion.

You mean you know what Islam really is?

I'm puzzled that you would insinuate that you can predict attitudes and behavior from a religion without offering much of anything in the way of a causal analysis. I'm also puzzled by your suggesting things about Islam without offering any supportive evidence, without providing any context, and without recognizing the need to qualify sweeping generalities.

Again, don't know what surveys you're referring to, but the ones I'm aware have shown substantial declines in support for terrorism in Muslim counties. If religion can reliably predict attitudes, how can there be such big attitudinal shifts over a relatively short period of time? How does one reconcile such shifts to the kind of essentialist theory you seem to be going for?

My sense is that attitudes and behaviors are unstable and situational and very hard to infer from religious text, especially in countries that have very low literacy rates, like many Muslim countries.

I'm new here. I don't want to wear out my welcome and I don't want to seem impolite. But some of these off-the-cuff remarks are ridiculous, if I may say so.

For our interest:
http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=257
http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?PageID=814

[islamis4u]

ok, it's not about being "aggressive" - it's about understanding how to have dialogue. read the code of conduct again. dialogue is not about telling other people they have to change. it is about *understanding*. and with all due respect, i know more than some about islam and the picture you are giving me is just the same old party line which they teach in pakistani madrassas. i *know* there are more ways of being muslim than the way you suggest. i *know* there are more opinions than those you are expressing. your whole attitude is simply parochial. i presume you know the word "pendu"? well, the world is a big place. if you tried to pass your opinions off in a face-to-face environment, you'd simply be laughed at. i'm sorry, but if you're trying to convert everyone to islam, you're not going to succeed, because you don't understand the people you're talking to. and conversion is not the point of dialogue, either!

But their are always some ethics for dialogue which i will not now follow...

i am not misguided. your "inviting" me will not change that. i believe you are the one who is misguided. you are under a misapprehension that i need you to inform me about the truth about islam. i do not. i have it from better sources than you.

I know some staunch on their belief, not 30 or 40 posts can change their mind first but it may click some points in their mind. Im a foolish guy do not know the religion and belief in it isn't that sound awkward???? Why are you here on this site????????????

i believe *my* religion is right for *me*. my religion, unlike yours does not oblige me to "invite" or convert other people to it. i experience the universalism of evangelising religions as insecurity writ large. you should be able to cope with the fact that if G!D had Wanted us all to be members of the same religion, G!D Is perfectly capable of making that so. i believe it even says as much in the Qur'an.

oooooooooooohhhhhhh my uncle is little old do not remember what he says on other post that you are only right you contradict yourself........

look, you're really not understanding something basic about religion, which is that not all religions are the same. and, moreover, it is perfectly possible to have more than one right answer to certain questions - religion is not mathematics. 1+1 only has one answer, 2. but if you say: "who is your mother?", then that has more than one correct answer, as my mother is also my father's wife, as well as my son's grandmother. now your religion says "we are right and everyone else is wrong", but my religion says "mine is right for us and you can believe what you like as long as you are a good person" - honestly, mate, this is basic logic. and, fyi, it's quite easy to be a good person according to my religion, there are only seven laws and almost everyone keeps all of them without even realising. we just don't believe everyone has to convert to our religion, because it's very difficult and demanding.

i know but what about christians? missionaries are their also their....... Yeah thats demanding when you had answers then you can talk without answers you can as we have for our religion.......... You are giving way out examples thats............. Now tell the examples you gave they do not contradict each other yeah offcourse a woman can be wife and in same mother, Now islam say Jesus(pbuh) is a prophet of God, Christian say he is G!D???? one can be right in them.... Now jews is waiting for some one to come and for Christian it is anti-christ and For Muslim's Dajjal. one can be right not all. Islam is now biggest Religion of the world now..... Its not done without davah??? One more thing i love very much and i just want to save you and nothing else..... For example you can take very even low classed animal is burning will you say no do what ever he does we will not save him???

because they are equally silly and think that they are right and everyone else is wrong. however, have you seen any sikh, hindu, zoroastrian, jewish or buddhist missionaries lately? no? well, that's because these religions don't feel the need to convert everyone else. in fact, not all christians feel this need either, just as not all muslims feel the need for it.

They are getting smaller in numbers also...... Saving you is bad then i have no problems i have told you about Islam....no sorry sorry ..... you know more than me so you know.... about Islam. Oh i frustrated... ufffff.

well, i'll say your english is getting better as you go along, so keep at it!

thnxs ufff your recommending me this is ohh so much for me i could die for this.......

i don't think you're understanding my answers. these topics are immensely complex and for you to suggest there are simple answers to them (which are presumably to be found in pakistani madrassas) only shows that you are simply ignorant of the world outside of pakistan. i am not "playing with words". i am analysing your arguments and showing how they don't make sense. the trouble is you're not actually used to talking to articulate non-muslims, because you've been taught that you have the answers to everything when what you've actually been taught are the same tired old mediaeval apologetics that all fundamentalists spout. perhaps this is why you're so frustrated - you actually think your arguments are self-evident when in fact they are anything but. i really don't mean to be rude here, but perhaps if you went and travelled the world a bit you might understand how much more complicated things are than they are teaching you in islamabad.

OLD TRICKS you play mister always have no answer and attack personalities and nothing..... I always wait for it ....... I have a big Laugh at your paste sir.... If you do not have answers to support you religion then you say oooohhhh you have been taught one thing............ One funny thing you do not know i never have been to madarsaa???OOOOOHHH SORRYYY my little sister can answer you she was telling me to answer you that, i read bible old testiment and new testiment so you know......i came out of my religion and tell you what is wrong and what is right its my opinion, but if you do not believe i can't put a pistol on your head and make you believe you are fundamentalist in your religion.................The thing is you give out the way answer.....


may be you have to have a rest....

[islamis4u]

I'm new here. I don't want to wear out my welcome and I don't want to seem impolite. But some of these off-the-cuff remarks are ridiculous, if I may say so.

this is comparative religion sir... welcome here... may be i have less post but im older here so i late-welcome you .....

[bananabrain]

Originally Posted by islamis4u

OLD TRICKS you play mister always have no answer and attack personalities and nothing.....

i don't think you understand my answers. other people here seem to find them adequate. and i am not attacking your personality, i am simply suggesting that your education has not prepared you to enter into genuine debate with people who are good at critical thinking.

One funny thing you do not know i never have been to madarsaa???

i hardly think that strengthens your argument.

OOOOOHHH SORRYYY my little sister can answer you she was telling me to answer you that, i read bible old testiment and new testiment so you know......

i could "read" a book on aircraft engineering translated from english into urdu, it doesn't mean i'd understand it or be able to apply the principles in practice.

b'shalom

bananabrain