Can Muslims be friends with Jews and Christians?

[islamis4u]

Sorry i forgot to tell is that why i used in forums is also have a reason that im alhamdulilah running a site with the name islamis4u that is why i use it mostly i do not want to show my name much that someone will think im doing this fame.

Jazak Allah Khair

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by islamis4u

As far as ma reading n knowledge of Islam n after asking many ukemas i have come to know that we cannot be friends with non-muslim its in Surah Mumtihnah, unless you want to remove their misconception about Islam n Allah thens its okay you can have it. For that we should make friends with no-muslims

I am sorry if this is a language problem but you clearly stated "i have come to know that we cannot be friends with non-muslim. This is a very clear message and states that Muslims and non Muslims cannot be friends. I have not misquoted you but perhaps it is a language barrier issue?

Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi says: "The Qur'an does not say that non-Muslims cannot be Muslims' friends, nor does it forbid Muslims to be friendly to non-Muslims. There are many non-Muslims who are good friends of Muslim individuals and the Muslim community. There are also many good Muslims who truly and sincerely observe their faith and are very friendly to many non-Muslims at the same time."

Please can you show me anything that states we can only be friends for the practice of dawah?

[islamis4u]

First thing is that may be it is because of different parts of the region from where we belong, okay.


I quoted you Quran Surah 60 Verse 1 and not Verse 9. It is most authentic book from which i agree. Truely saying i do not know Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi, i can also tell many of renowned scholars of which many muslims follow in our Area says: That we should even not also see the person who is from other religion so that does not mean i will start agreeing with them and if Quran Says that you can not be friend that is it. We would not. The thing is that what meaning of friend are two one is being kind and things like that okay, and i know from where you said this:

In the above Noble Verses, the Arabic word for "friends" is "Awliyaa", which has four literal meanings: (1) Allies; (2) Friends; and (3) Guardians. In Noble Verse 60:13, the Arabic word used was "tatawallu", which is derived from the root word "Awliyaa".
"Waliy" which is the singular of "Awliyaa" means "Guardian" as your parents were your guardians when you were a kid. So as you can see, the Arabic word "Awliyaa" has different literal meanings.




okay now the thing is that we in our language the friend meaning is very much different what you are saying, It is "dosat" and we have to meanings and lastly from where you found out that awaliya their is also the answer of you question about davah okay their is written as i wrote

In the above Noble Verses, the Arabic word for "friends" is "Awliyaa", which has four literal meanings: (1) Allies; (2) Friends; and (3) Guardians. In Noble Verse 60:13, the Arabic word used was "tatawallu", which is derived from the root word "Awliyaa".
"Waliy" which is the singular of "Awliyaa" means "Guardian" as your parents were your guardians when you were a kid. So as you can see, the Arabic word "Awliyaa" has different literal meanings.
Important Note: In Noble Verse 60:13 above, Allah Almighty said "la tatawallu qawman", which literally means "take not as allies a tribe (or a community)", which further proves my point that "Awliyaa" in the Noble Verses above is meant for "alliance" and not personal "friendship".

im quoting it from: asking christianity.com okay.


I will again say the meaning of friend in our language is dosat and dosat in our language is very much different its just like alliance okay, so it is making mistakes, what friendship is pointed out that first already that meaning of friend differ in every region.

[islamis4u]

sorry but i missed this out in qoute i made from the website where i wrote about awliya meaning it is also their

*** There is nothing wrong with developing a personal friendship with a non-Muslim to help him/her understand and appreciate Islam and to ultimately embrace it if they chose to. As clearly shown in the introduction above, Allah Almighty commanded all Muslims to treat with kindness and justice all of the good non-Muslims.

[bob x]

Islam is not for me.
If you want to know why I think so, you need only look in the mirror.

[islamis4u]

May be, Its your opinion.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by islamis4u

I quoted you Quran Surah 60 Verse 1 and not Verse 9.

I know you quoted 60:1 but I answered by quoting 3 verses, to explain the meaning of the words used in relation to 'friends' and 'allies'.

So let us look at verse 60:1 (this is Pickthals translation)

O ye who believe! Choose not My enemy and your enemy for allies. Do ye give them friendship when they disbelieve in that truth which hath come unto you, driving out the messenger and you because ye believe in Allah, your Lord? If ye have come forth to strive in My way and seeking My good pleasure, (show them not friendship). Do ye show friendship unto them in secret, when I am Best Aware of what ye hide and what ye proclaim? And whosoever doeth it among you, he verily hath strayed from the right way. (60:1)

We know that this verse was revealed just after Hadrat Hatib bin Abz Balta'a had befriended the Meccans, in order to seek their protection for his family, and sent them a secret letter telling them of the Messengers war plans. This letter was intercepted and many lives were saved (both Muslim and Quraish).

As I am sure you know Hadrat Hatib bin Abz Balta'a was a Muslim, not an unbeliever.

So from this we know the verse is talking about befriending anyone that would betray the Muslims and make allies of our enemies, as well as our enemies themselves.

This is from Maududi's commentary about this verse:

Administering a severe warning at this blunder Allah has taught the believers the lesson that no believer should, under any circumstances and for any motive, have relations of love and friendship with the disbelievers, who are actively hostile to Islam, and a believer should refrain from everything which might be helpful to them in the conflict between Islam and disbelief.

Originally Posted by islamis4u

i can also tell many of renowned scholars of which many muslims follow in our Area says: That we should even not also see the person who is from other religion

Then I am very happy that I do not live in Pakistan and very, very sad that people are using this verse so badly to teach intolerence.

Originally Posted by islamis4u

and if Quran Says that you can not be friend that is it.

Of course that is it but what the Quran tells us is not to be friends with our enemies or people that would betray us. Of course this makes sense and is the right way.

[islamis4u]

Point of debate is friends okay? I told you i undertand what what my language tells me i tell you the English 'friend' word in urdu means brother like relation, so the meaning you are taking out is something else i say it is because of language which we speak.

Lastly please if you quote a thing please quote completely, you take out something in between like about scholars in Pakistan, other while reading the post will think that im saying that we should believe these scholars.

I have read the commentary i gave the reason the reason arrising is the meaning of a friend in its is different in our language so when i translate friend in Urdu it means 'Dost' and dost other then what you are talking about friend, dost means like you are like little smaller then brotherly relation.

[bananabrain]

Originally Posted by islamis4u

There is nothing wrong with developing a personal friendship with a non-Muslim to help him/her understand and appreciate Islam and to ultimately embrace it if they chose to.

islam is not for me, either, as much as i respect it. and it is attitudes like yours that embarrass the muslims that i am friends. what the hell kind of person will only be friends with someone else if there's a chance they might be able to convert them? that, my conditional friend, is called *dishonesty*. it is *not* friendship, but pure hypocrisy and it desecrates the Divine Name to attribute such an attitude to Allah. friends - or allies, or brothers, or whatever, like you, frankly, i can do without.

Originally Posted by muslimwoman

Then I am very happy that I do not live in Pakistan and very, very sad that people are using this verse so badly to teach intolerance.

and *this* is precisely why pakistan is such a basket case and, moreover is something that cannot be blamed on anyone else but their own obscurantism.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Of course that is it but what the Quran tells us is not to be friends with our enemies or people that would betray us. Of course this makes sense and is the right way.

There may indeed have been a misunderstanding due to language barriers. Here is one of his earlier posts of "friendship" between a Muslim and non-Muslims.

Originally Posted by islamis4u

I think you do not understood me i was saying what i asked okay.... Secondly that you are very much right i agree with but till a point you know what is the meaning of Friendship its not just like that we talk 7 or 8 times will say that we are friends no friendship is a relation of give n take. Thirdly i want to say is that if i said that you can not be friends non-muslims that does not in anyways mean that we mal treat or do not treat them in right or do anything else which hurt the feeling of other, we should be polite with them we should nice with them, but friendship is something else i may tell you friend is a one with whom you can share everything okay, being nice or polite with other talk for two or three times do not make us friend.

Point im pointing out is that kindness be nice with other and friendship differs alot.

........ Today their are different definitions of friendship, its different for everyone. I think i explained well what i have to say or i hope you agree me.

I think he was merely trying to say (as in his earlier post), that sometimes friendships aren't practical, perhaps for political reasons. So he made a distinction between friendship and acquaintance. I suppose that a "Muslim identity" and loyalty to the Islamic collective are very important to some Muslims, and that if anything gets in the way of their ultimate divine mission as Muslims because of a relationship with a non-Muslim, they must sacrifice the latter.

"Not friends" doesn't necessarily mean "enemy." That may be the misunderstanding. I have many acquaintances, but very few friends (maybe even none at all). Acquaintances are people who know you, friends are special people who, usually, care about you. I suppose the word "friend" is often subjective in this regard. A friend is a very good acquaintance. A very special acquaintance.

But anyway, perhaps what Islamis4u was saying was that a Muslim should not commit to being friends with non-Muslims, not that they wouldn't want to get to know us or get acquainted. It's a policy where they don't commit to caring for non-Muslims. Not that they wouldn't care for anyone. They just won't commit.

To me that's quite reasonable. There's no law saying that everyone (religious or non-religious) has to have friends. Are you somehow an enemy of humanity if you don't? No friends so it means you hate humans? Lol certainly not. It just means that you haven't committed to caring for anyone yet.

Here I'm just being an optimist. I don't want to prejudge Islamis4u as an enemy of humanity.

Perhaps it's like dating, where a man who has a girlfriend and a woman who has a boyfriend say to people when they're seen together, "we're just friends." Lol just friends? Nothing between the two of you? So in Islamis4u's case there is the acquaintance, the next level up is the friend. In the case of dating, you have a friend, and the next level up is a person with whom you sleep with, marry and have sex.

It's tempting to ask for the upgrade, but one is better-advised to not do it. It may be expensive or involve a lot of maintenance issues.

Lol that example I brought up there was a rather erotic one. But yeah I like throwing one of these things in every now and then because it's funny.

[farhan]

It kind of amazes me how people translate auliya as friends. I think I have posted in this thread before, & have discussed this word in detail.

Secondly, it needs to be realised that the first person who thought of Muhammad as a prophet was a christian monk, the first who accepted his call was a christian, the first who helped muslims save their life was a christian king, the first who invited muslims to attack them were christians (not roman catholics),.... so its a bit hard to believe that these people werent friends.

The verse simply means...dont take allies, in war times, from jews & christians, at the cost of allience with muslims. Very simple.

BTW, in arabic, simple acquaintance is Rafiq (companion/comrade), & a firend is Siddiq (truthful/sincere friend).

[bananabrain]

Originally Posted by farhan

The verse simply means...dont take allies, in war times, from jews & christians, at the cost of alliance with muslims. Very simple.

simple, but it assumes that because someone is muslim, they are automatically more worthy as allies than jews or christians. what if the jews or christians deserve your alliance more than the muslims; this is entirely possible. consequently i think this sentence makes far more sense in its historical context (ie the arabian jews and christians of muhammad's time) than it does as a general rule; this is a very common problem in terms of statements about "the jews" or "the christians" in the Qur'an.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[islamis4u]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

islam is not for me, either, as much as i respect it. and it is attitudes like yours that embarrass the muslims that i am friends. what the hell kind of person will only be friends with someone else if there's a chance they might be able to convert them? that, my conditional friend, is called *dishonesty*. it is *not* friendship, but pure hypocrisy and it desecrates the Divine Name to attribute such an attitude to Allah. friends - or allies, or brothers, or whatever, like you, frankly, i can do without.


and *this* is precisely why pakistan is such a basket case and, moreover is something that cannot be blamed on anyone else but their own obscurantism.

b'shalom

bananabrain

First see your language please their are many code of conducts for copying done by a Muslims is their not any code of conduct for using nice and respectfull language?

What are you saying about my country take your words back okay i have never used disrespectful words for any okay!!!
I do not know if you are true super mod here then and using this type of language for other's country then what will other do.

Comming to your reply

I said that and im keeping my words okay and one thing more you know i do not say you agree with me or not but for me my religion is the true religion for me okay once more im saying im not pointing out but i will then think that other is not on right path and we in friendship have to save them save them from help again in my view. so its rather more friendly to save someone from hell. It is different for every religion for every person his or her religion is most sacred one and true if you call him or her to him her religion you are in their view saving them its not dishonesty.

[wil]

Originally Posted by islamis4u

i can also tell many of renowned scholars of which many muslims follow in our Area says: That we should even not also see the person who is from other religion so that does not mean i will start agreeing with them

Namaste Islamis4u

ah the crux of the bisquit for me!

Any religion, any group, any organization, any person that tells me, I should only listen to them and no other, I'm out the door!!

Contemplate this, there are poor, disabled, when I encounter them and make a decision to help it is not based on religion or what someone says I can or can't do.

When it comes to discussions with mathemeticians, scientists, philosophers, doctors, nurses, real estate agents, tax attorneys, if I were told that I had to only use ones that had the same color hair, eyes, skin, religion, nationality, I'd say shove it.

Lastly it is my opinion being as opinionated as I am that any group that trys to control an individuals freedom to learn what is outside the group has a good reason, they are hiding the truth and afraid their house of cards will crumble if they get an aware educated thinking individual in their midst.

True their is deception everywhere, sometimes very close at hand!

Peace my brother I am so glad you are here discussing these issues with us.

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by wil

Lastly it is my opinion being as opinionated as I am that any group that trys to control an individuals freedom to learn what is outside the group has a good reason, they are hiding the truth and afraid their house of cards will crumble if they get an aware educated thinking individual in their midst.

Well, usually they're not deliberately trying to deceive; they're self-deceived. They think they are speaking the truth......

But they have an agenda......That agenda is to implement some kind of utopia where everyone believes what they believe. This utopia they desire doesn't necessarily contain the whole world, but the in-group they control. They want everyone in the group to conform to the tenets and doctrines of their ideology because they believe that by aligning people to this framework, they will be able to increase the power of the ideology they follow. They will be more effective in achieving what they see as Perfection or "the Ultimate Goal," which, being either perfect or ultimate in their view, they see as the most honourable thing anyone can have as their life's purpose. If they purge all non-conformists and purify the group of all corrupted ideas, the utopian-bound collective that devotes itself perfectly to the ideology that the group of people has gathered to promote, serve, protect and fulfill creates a self-contained system that can both maintain its own existence and possibly, if the group decides, expand and proselyte, guaranteeing the survival of the ideological system they have sworn to protect and serve and achieving the divine purpose they see as their ultimate purpose (the most honourable purpose one can imagine, and which they choose to follow for this reason) in life.

Most cults, I believe have this implicit and instinctive notion. It's rarely written down because it's assumed and taken for granted for what it is.

I think the story of the Tower of Babel was an example of such a system that used a physical object. Every ideology promoted and maintained in this way could be seen as a Tower of Babel. Although the object of alignment and devotion is not a physical object, it has a substitute: ideology.