Buddha Dharma without a school?

bodhi_mindisfree · 09-21-2006, 06:12 AM

Hello, I took world religions two semesters ago and last semester Eastern Religions. I have adopted Buddha Dharma as my religion because it is the most peaceful, practical solution in my mind. Later I find "my mind" as a contradicting statement.
After reading many books and adopting the DHAMMAPADA (translated by Venerable Ananda Maitreya and Rose Cramer), the Tao Te Ching, and many other books such as NO DEATH, NO FEAR by THAY Thich Nhat Hanh as spiritual books, is it possible to be a follower of Buddha Dharma and not belong to a specific sect?
I (once again, a contradicting statement) follow the path of Theravada and Zen. When friends ask me what sect I follow, I simply say I follow Engaged Buddhism. Is this even a term? and if so, what does it mean?
The emphasis in Buddhism is a teacher-student relationship. I live apart from any temple (deep in the southern bible belt of North Carolina, USA) and thus apart from any teacher. I have read most of Thich Nhat Hanh's books and transcripts, is it plausible to call him my teacher? (I recomend BE FREE WHERE YOU ARE and NO DEATH, NO FEAR to any beginning Buddhist)

SABBE SATTA SUKHITO HONTU!
mAY ALL BEINGS BE HAPPY!

toujour_333 · 09-21-2006, 06:16 PM

namaste bodhi and welcome to CR,

i enjoy thich nhat hanh's books as well. he is actually one of my favorite authors along with pema chodron. you should check her out as well. i would consider thich nhat hanh my teacher because, due to my very simular situation (i live in Georgia, USA) i dont have much access to a sangha. however, one thing that i learned from thich nhat hanh is this: one doesnt have to be sitting in meditation in a temple to be with his sangha. all one has to do is be mindful of the present moment and then his sangha is there with him, as well as the buddha. when i meditate, i can feel thich nhat hanh's presence with me. i am actually planning on going to one of his monastaries to study for a while here within the next few years and i have been considering the monastic life as well, but i dont want to rush things. you should read The Heart Of The Buddha's Teachings by Thich Nhat Hanh. its a very good book, and no matter how many times you read it, you will always pull something new out of it that you missed before. im actually on my second time reading it.

as far as finding a sect and following a sect, i was having the same problem when i first started. what i was told by my brothers on this website is that they all teach the same things, they just focus on different ways to get there, basically. so, my choice is that i dont need to choose a sect since i practice a bit of them all. i follow the dharma and the dharma doesnt have a sect. i think that people get too caught up in trying to define what their practice is and what they do, and they loose the focus of their practice which is the practice itself.

as far as the teacher-student relationship goes, once you realize the interbeing of all things, you will realize that everyone is your teacher. the man that cuts you off while driving teaches you patience, the woman in the grocery store who can only afford to buy the bare minimum teaches you about compassion and being happy that you have all that you have, the air that blows through your hair teaches you about impermanence. they are all your teachers. i just had the insight about the interbeing of all things and it is beautiful and has strengthened my practice immensily. if you want to read about it, read the thread called 'insight'.

be well in peace

bodhi_mindisfree · 09-21-2006, 10:35 PM

toujour_333, your insight seems sincere, and I hope my practise will oneday soon lead me down this path. You seem to like the same books as me, have you ever read the book LITTLE PILGRIM by Ko Un? If not, when I ordered it off the internet, they sent me two copies(I paid for two by accident, so I did not steal the book). If you are interested, maybe I could send it to you. It's your choice. It's about young Sudhana who meets 53 teachers before reaching Enlightenment. It's a modern translation of a section of the Avatamsaka Sutra. A very good story.
Here's another question I pose though, are there really hell realms and Tu****a Heavens or is it all here on Earth? Here's the reason why I ask: my brother-in-law, age 15, bought two rabbits. He built them a single cage and kept them outside at the beginning of Summer. He was feeding them leaves (not even part of a rabbit's diet!!!) and giving them water every two days or so in a bowl. If you live in the southern USA, it gets to be about 95 degrees everyday during the summer with stifling humidity. One rabbit died. A week later, the white (Californian) rabbit was lying there as I went outside. I walked up to it, it blinked, but could not move. It was temperature was 101 degrees and he had NO WATER nor FOOD!!! I picked him up, his ribs were the feature I felt, nothing more. I put some fresh water in a bowl, and it started blinking, but could not move. My father-in-law had to hold it up to the water bowl for it to drink. Sincerely, this rabbit had maybe 15 more minutes before it would have died. I put a whole head of Lettuce (also not nutricious, but the only fresh thing we had to give). The whole head of lettuce mysteriously disappeared by afternoon (i.e. it ate it all!!!).
That has been nearly 2 to 3 months ago, and since then I have adopted the rabbit and he is remarkably more healthy with fresh food and water and pellets and hay constantly available. This refers to my question. Is there really another realm like Hells, Heavens where the gods dwell, realms of Hungary Ghost, or is Heaven and Hell an illusion like it is on Earth? The way I translate it is that Jake (the rabbit's new name) was in Hell but has since gone to Heaven. Please tell me if I'm wrong or just give your view about this. Please, everyone respond because I have no Sangha, this is my newly adopted E-Sangha if I may call it that...

bodhi_mindisfree · 09-22-2006, 03:19 AM

Here's another question I pose though, are there really hell realms and Tu****a Heavens or is it all here on Earth? Here's the reason why I ask: my brother-in-law, age 15, bought two rabbits. He built them a single cage and kept them outside at the beginning of Summer. He was feeding them leaves (not even part of a rabbit's diet!!!) and giving them water every two days or so in a bowl. If you live in the southern USA, it gets to be about 95 degrees everyday during the summer with stifling humidity. One rabbit died. A week later, the white (Californian) rabbit was lying there as I went outside. I walked up to it, it blinked, but could not move. It was temperature was 101 degrees and he had NO WATER nor FOOD!!! I picked him up, his ribs were the feature I felt, nothing more. I put some fresh water in a bowl, and it started blinking, but could not move. My father-in-law had to hold it up to the water bowl for it to drink. Sincerely, this rabbit had maybe 15 more minutes before it would have died. I put a whole head of Lettuce (also not nutricious, but the only fresh thing we had to give). The whole head of lettuce mysteriously disappeared by afternoon (i.e. it ate it all!!!).
That has been nearly 2 to 3 months ago, and since then I have adopted the rabbit and he is remarkably more healthy with fresh food and water and pellets and hay constantly available. This refers to my question. Is there really another realm like Hells, Heavens where the gods dwell, realms of Hungary Ghost, or is Heaven and Hell an illusion like it is on Earth? The way I translate it is that Jake (the rabbit's new name) was in Hell but has since gone to Heaven. Please tell me if I'm wrong or just give your view about this. Please, everyone respond because I have no Sangha, this is my newly adopted E-Sangha if I may call it that...
This was in the previous messsage, but I feel no one read it.

moseslmpg · 09-22-2006, 06:24 PM

Excuse me for the intrusion, but what, praytell, is a sangha? I wish someone could simply make an eastern religion dictionary because the terms are so multituinous and necessarily obscure to us Westerners.

No essential nature · 09-22-2006, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Is there really another realm like Hells, Heavens where the gods dwell, realms of Hungary Ghost, or is Heaven and Hell an illusion like it is on Earth? The way I translate it is that Jake (the rabbit's new name) was in Hell but has since gone to Heaven. Please tell me if I'm wrong or just give your view about this.

I think the rabbit was in the animal realm all along! The higher realms are Jealous God and Infinite Space, rather than a Christian type heaven - I think it unlikely your pet found these through the power of lettuce. I think the realms are metaphors, the approach your taking is valid but, they are not metaphors for what you are thinking - suffering and happiness, or the fruit of 'sin' and the fruit of good deeds a la xianity.

There is suffering in all the realms (which is why its best to be in the human, where at least this can be ended!). The rabbit may have let go of the enourmous thirst it experienced, like a monk may fast not to suffer but to let go of suffering. Or given food it may have only wanted more, I remember watching my pets seeming to delight much more in food they had taken off other pets, regardless of any surplus!

As I see it the upper and lower realms regard the sphere of karma, ie. of volition, and are about the choices we can freely make. When we truly believe we are not free, or our vision of ourself makes us unfree, we leave the human realm. Roughly ignorance/instinct, greed, hate, for the lower realms, power (not sure about this 1) and arrogance for the upper.. But in truth, nothing can make us unfree, nothing can make us suffer.

toujour_333 · 09-22-2006, 08:37 PM

namaste all,

moseslmpg- a sangha is the monastic community in buddhism. if u would like more information, please let me know and i will do the best that i can to give u some links to other websites where u can get more information, or i will try to explain things to the best of my ability.

bodhi- as far as the hell realms and heaven realms, i see them mainly as states of being. now, one can be in heaven or hell depending on whats going on around them, such as your story with your rabbit. i also see them as states of mind. take a hungry ghost for example, they are pictures with small mouths and large stomachs, and no matter how hard they try, they can never get enough into their mouths to satisfy their large stomachs. well, to me that is synonymous with an addict. no matter how hard they try, they can never get enough, and so in that way, it can be a state of mind and state of being.

however, i personally tend to shy away from talking about the other planes of existance because since i havent experienced them to my knowledge, then i cannot say definitely whether they are real or not. i prefer to experience something myself before having any opinion on it really. however, some things you just cant be for sure. also, remember the second noble truth, the origin of sufferring is attachment, and dont become too attached to things like the other planes of existance. like the Buddha said, his teachings are meant to be rafts to help us cross the sea of sufferring to get to the other shore, but once we get there, we should leave the rafts behind. just something for u to ponder over my friend.

be well in peace

moseslmpg · 09-22-2006, 08:47 PM

Well, I don't have any specific questions because I don't know enough about the subject. That said, any explanatory links would be appreciated.

bodhi_mindisfree · 09-23-2006, 12:08 AM

Quote:

I think the rabbit was in the animal realm all along!

This is another question I pose, Why are there realms if souls do no exist? Jake cannot be in the animal realm if HE does not exist as a seperate entity. When I was in Eastern Religions class last semester, we talked about animal realms and Tu****a Heaven, on and on. But a view came to my head, she drew a picture of circles with Humans on top, the second had Animals, and the bottom bubble had Plants. This was in reference to Hinduism and Buddhism. I was thinking, we are egocentric to believe humans are the highest form of being because only we have the ability to attain Enlightenment. I was also thinking, to a dog, dogs must be the highest being. To a rabbit, rabbits must be the highest being. I personally believe plants are sentient beings as well, just on a more simple level, even though most buddhist would not agree.

toujour_333 · 09-23-2006, 01:27 AM

namaste,

bodhi- the realms are the realms of being, not that to 'be' one has to have a soul. there are other formations such as flowers and mountians, and although they do not breathe as we do, that doesnt mean that they cease to be. they are formations of the mind and physical formations as well. and in that way, they are a part of us as well. since we precieve them, they are a part of us. thats the interbeing of all things, however its much deeper when one actually realizes it. someone can conceptualize the dharma all day long and understand it, but once that person really realizes the dharma, that is insight and it is beautiful.

i dont see myself any higher or lower than any of the other realms of being. because i preceive them, they are myself as well, and therefore how can i be any higher or lower than they? i know that it is said that being born as a human is preferred since as a human one can fully understand the dharma and attain enlightenment. i have faith that the Buddha was correct when he said this, however, since i cannot experience it myself, i cannot say for sure.

moseslmpg- well, i have a few websites that are good for beginners in the dharma. also, if you have any questions about a specific teaching, please feel free to contact me and ill do the best that i can to explain it or i will try to direct u to someone who can.

www.buddhanet.net
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism
http://www.buddhaweb.org/

those are some good starting points for you. and again, if u have any questions, feel free to ask.

be well in peace

bodhi_mindisfree · 09-24-2006, 04:28 AM

Do any of you believe lay men and women can achieve Nirvana? If yes, say why. If no, also say why. I believe they can, but nearly impossible because of the attachments being a householder causes.

jiii · 09-24-2006, 06:09 AM

To be honest, I don't have all that much to say as far as this goes. I would offer that the answer would depend on what you think Nirvana is.

After all, "Nirvana is uncompounded; it is made by nothing at all. One cannot say of Nirvana that it arises, or that it does not arise or that it is to be produced or that it is past or future or present, or that it is cognizable by the eye, ear, nose, tongue, or body."

This is from the Questions of King Melinda. Of course, I know you didn't ask what it was, but rather if it is available to laymen. Though, one cannot comment too accurately on the availability of Whatchmacallit unless there is some degree of clarity as to what exactly a Whatchamacallit is. Then again, I think it's a candy bar.

bodhi_mindisfree · 09-25-2006, 03:25 AM

jiii, so true.

Sabbe Satta Sukhito Hontu

By the way, where did you read "...King Melinda?" It's referenced in my Eastern Religions book, but I can't find it anywhere.

jiii · 09-25-2006, 03:47 AM

So far as I know, there aren't many full translations that are still in print. There may be none, at all. That excerpt from the Questions of King Milinda is from a small volume I have titled "The Teachings of the Compassionate Buddha" by EA Burtt. I have quite a few different books on Buddhism, most of which focus primarily on the author's understanding of the points explained. Burtt takes a different approach. Chapter by chapter, he keeps his own commentary brief and introductory in nature, instead letting well-chosen excerpts from a great variety of Buddhist texts explain the topics. "The Teachings of the Compassionate Buddha" is very recent and can be easily acquired online or at large bookstores.

If you are more interested in the Questions of King Milinda, specifically, you might be able to find some used copies. Also, you can look around on the Internet and find quite a few online translations.

Here is one link: http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/milinda.htm

Vajradhara · 09-25-2006, 04:27 AM

Namaste Bodhi,

thank you for the post.

the short answer to your question is "yes, the laiety can attain Nirvana/Nibbana and Awaken." this is confirmed by Buddha Shakyamuni in several of the Suttas which are indicative of the Second Turning of the Wheel of Dharma.

i suppose that, throughout history, many many beings have awoken and many of them are noted throughout the various Suttas/Sutras and commentaries which are available in the Canon.

i would offer that the thing to bear in mind is that Nibbana/Nirvana is not the "goal" of the Buddha Dharma except in a very narrow sense. it is once here that the remainder is dealt with.

Nibbana/Nirvana is characterized in both positive and negative terms.. i.e. sometimes it is explained by what it lacks and other times by what it features.

as for the Questions of King Milinda.. you can read a good transliteration of them here:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit...iln/index.html

metta,

~v