Buddha Dharma without a school?

[No essential nature]

Originally Posted by bodhi_mindisfree

This is another question I pose, Why are there realms if souls do no exist? Jake cannot be in the animal realm if HE does not exist as a seperate entity. When I was in Eastern Religions class last semester, we talked about animal realms and Tushita Heaven, on and on. But a view came to my head, she drew a picture of circles with Humans on top, the second had Animals, and the bottom bubble had Plants. This was in reference to Hinduism and Buddhism. I was thinking, we are egocentric to believe humans are the highest form of being because only we have the ability to attain Enlightenment. I was also thinking, to a dog, dogs must be the highest being. To a rabbit, rabbits must be the highest being. I personally believe plants are sentient beings as well, just on a more simple level, even though most buddhist would not agree.

Toujour has already given an elegant answer. I just wanted to say thats not how the 'hierarchy' was presented to me - as I understand it the realms are seperated by degrees of suffering, and the human realm is not at the top but in the middle. I had it but that there is just enough suffering but not too much - suffering is inescapable for all beings, but it forms a very small amount of the lives of almost immortal Gods, and nearly all of the time in the Hell realm.

[No essential nature]

Originally Posted by bodhi_mindisfree

Do any of you believe lay men and women can achieve Nirvana? If yes, say why. If no, also say why. I believe they can, but nearly impossible because of the attachments being a householder causes.

The answer to this is well documented - but I think you point at a more substantial question about Buddhism in general. One of the main problems people mention to me that they have with Buddhism is, isn't it about being self denying and against sex and entertainment (monks aren't allowed towatch entertainment) and drinking and generally whatever is fun?

I can't help but think of Hotei, the laughing Buddha-

Once as he was about his play-work another Zen master happened along and inquired: "What is the significance of Zen?"
Hotei immediately plopped his sack down on the ground in silent answer.

"Then," asked the other, "what is the actualization of Zen?"
At once Hotei swung the sack over his shoulder and continued on his way.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste all,

just for reference sake, here are the 31 planes of existence posited by Buddhist cosmology:

Thirty-one Planes of Existence

• Four planes of the Immaterial Brahma Realm:
  • (31) Plane of Neither Perception-nor-non-Perception
  • (30) Plane of Nothingness
  • (29) Plane of Infinite Consciousness
  • (28) Plane of Infinite Space
• Sixteen planes of the Fine Material Brahma Realm:
  • 7 Fourth Jhana Planes:
    • 5 Pure Abodes:
      • (27) Highest (Akanittha)
      • (26) Clear Sighted (Sudassi)
      • (25) Beautiful (Sudassa)
      • (24) Serene (Atappa)
      • (23) Durable (Aviha)
    • (22) Non-percipient, matter only, no mind
    • (21) Great Fruit
  • 3 Third Jhana Planes:
    • (20) Third Jhana, highest degree
    • (19) Third Jhana, medium degree
    • (18) Third Jhana, minor degree
  • 3 Second Jhana Planes:
    • (17) Second Jhana, highest degree (Abhassara)
    • (16) Second Jhana, medium degree
    • (15) Second Jhana, minor degree
  • 3 First Jhana Planes:
    • (14) First Jhana, Maha Brahmas
    • (13) First Jhana, Brahma's ministers
    • (12) First Jhana, Brahma's retinue
• Eleven planes of the Sensuous Realm :
  • Seven Happy Sensuous Planes:
    • Six Deva planes:
      • (11) Control others' creations
      • (10) Rejoice in their own creations
      • (9) Tusita — Delightful Plane
      • (8) Yama
      • (7) Realm of the Thirty-three
      • (6) Catummaharajika — 4 Great Kings
    • (5) Human Beings
  • Four Lower Realms of Woe:
    • (4) Ghosts
    • (3) Asuras
    • (2) Animal realm
    • (1) Hell realms

we can explore any of these in more detail should there be a desire.

metta,

~v

[bodhi_mindisfree]

Vajradhara, jiii, thank you both for the links. I find this book to be exceptionally interesting.

Very much appreciated.

[toujour_333]

namaste,

does anyone know where i can find any information about Hotei? one of the many things that i have yet to delve into further is the other Buddhas and bodhisattvas, however i have read a bit on the bodhisattvas. was Hotei an actual Buddha or just a chinese bodhisattva? ive heard a bit of both really, but nothing conclusive. im sure it probably has a lot to do with the different schools and their thoughts on the matter, but any more information would be greatly appreciated or any links as well.

thanks a lot and be well in peace

[No essential nature]

Originally Posted by toujour_333

namaste,

does anyone know where i can find any information about Hotei? one of the many things that i have yet to delve into further is the other Buddhas and bodhisattvas, however i have read a bit on the bodhisattvas. was Hotei an actual Buddha or just a chinese bodhisattva? ive heard a bit of both really, but nothing conclusive. im sure it probably has a lot to do with the different schools and their thoughts on the matter

Different cultures I think especially - in China many Taoist and traditional/folk deities have become synchretic with arhats boddhistavas and buddhas, much like saints in Christianity. Which is to say they may or may not bebased on real people though they usually are, but go on to take up attributes and symbols very like old Gods. Theres quite a thorough Wikipedia article under Hotei - I too have been meaning to do more research, particularly from the perspective of art and the diverse ways of representing the Buddha.

[toujour_333]

namaste no essential nature,

i actually decided to look at wikipedia after posting my reply since wikipedia has just about everything one needs to know on it. however, you are right, the article answered many of my questions about Hotei and his legacy. thank you for the response.

be well in peace

[Vajradhara]

Namaste toujour,

thank you for the post.

Hotei is a Bodhisattva as we know that the next Buddha to arise in this world system is the Buddha Maitreya and the conditions for this arising are not and have not occurred.

a Bodhisattva is an Awakened and Liberated being the main difference between a Buddha and a Bodhisattva is not the degree of Awakening, per se, rather it is that a Buddha is able to completely expound the Dharma for all sentient beings to understand and a Bodhisattva is not.

the next Buddha to arise, Maitreya, is residing in the Tustia heaven which is where all Bodhisattvas dwell until they take their final rebirth as a Buddha.

whilst it is certainly interesting from an academic stand point, it has little to do with ones own practice wouldn't you say?

metta,

~v

[jiii]

Just wanted to mention, Vajradhara, that I am always pleased and interested with the sometimes obscure knowledge of Buddhist cosmology that you concisely provide. Thank you for your posts.

-jiii

[bodhi_mindisfree]

much like saints in Christianity.

Did anyone know that Buddha Shakyamuni is actually a Catholic saint? I don't want to get in trouble plagarizing, so I will quote the whole section in ESSENTIAL BUDDHISM, A COMPLETE GUIDE TO BELIEFS AND PRACTICES by Jack MaGuire. Page 30 and 31:

Sometime early in the second millennium c.e., the Roman Catholic Church unwittingly made the Buddha a saint. It happened when a centuries-old hero named Josaphat was canonized. Church authorities knew him only by popular legend, but that's all it took back then, as long as the story was engrossing, inspiring, and doctrinally sound.
Josaphat's story qualified on all three counts. He was born to a royal couple in India, at which time it was prophesied that he would become a religious leader rather than succeeding his father as king. Determined to thwart this fate, the king wouldn't allow his son to leave the palace grounds for many years. Finally Josaphat did, and what he saw horrified him: the old, the sick, and the dead. Fortunately, he also encountered Barlaam, a Christian monk from Sri Lanka, whose wise counsel impressed him so much that he too brecame a monk.
Desperate to win Josaphat back, the king gave him half the kingdom to rule. Josaphat quickly turned this land into a model Christian state. His father was so moved by the results that he himself converted to Christianity. When he died shortly afterward, Josaphat refused to take the throne. Instead, he joined Barlaam as a wandering ascetic and performed many miracles before his peaceful and widely mourned death.
In Josaphat's legend, modern scholars recognize the story of the Buddha, which apparently shape-shifted as it traveled west from region to region. They attribute the name Josaphat to a linguistic contortion of the Buddha's title, Bodhisattva (in an earlier, Arabic version of Josaphat's story, his name was Yudasaf). Even the name Barlaam probably derives from the term Bhagavan (Blessed One), which is often bestowed in the Buddha. Thus Josaphat's story can be interpreted symbolically to describe Josaphat saving hmself-a truly Buddhist concept!
Although Josaphat is no longer liturgicallyh celebrated by the Catholic Church, his name remains in the Roman Martyrology, the official catalog of saints, and his day of worship is still listed as November 27. Because he was made a saint before the canonization process was reformed (1588),

[bodhi_mindisfree]

I don't know what I did to post it 5 times. Every time I hit the space bar it posted it. Sorry.

[toujour_333]

namaste,

V- thanks for that interesting information. i do appreciate it. and your right, it doesnt have much to do with ones practice, per se. but i do find it rather interesting that these things exist. but thank you for 'enlightening' me on Hotei and Matrieya.

Bodhi- thanks for that quote as well. i had personally never heard of that saint, even though i went to catholic school for a short time. i guess that goes to show one the interbein of religions and religious concepts and practices, dont u think? also, did u get my reply message to your email?

be well in peace

[Vajradhara]

Originally Posted by jiii

Just wanted to mention, Vajradhara, that I am always pleased and interested with the sometimes obscure knowledge of Buddhist cosmology that you concisely provide. Thank you for your posts.

-jiii

Namaste jiii,

thank you for the post and the kind words

my posts simply reflect my understanding, such that it is, of the topic at hand. if you derive any benefit from my words it is due to your own good karma ripening.

metta,

~v