Blessings

[Thomas]

The practice of ascetic is thought by "some" to purify the soul which comes through denial of material things which may cause detachment.

Not sure if that's in the right order, and I would suggest the practice of asceticism is universal, and not limited to religion. I don't know of any who teach the opposite - although within every tradition there have been those who sought to pervert it.

The purification of the soul comes by the stilling of every human passion to allow the transcendant to be reflected within that stillness of being - purgation - illumination - union: "be still and know that I am God" (Psalm 46:10).

This is an act of "man" tring to look as good to GOD as he possible can.

There's nowt wrong with that. I think it's the Sufis who say 'act as if God is watching your every move' ... or was that my Sunday School guilt trip? Whatever, the Sufi does say 'God is closer than your jugular vein'.

I think its the fruit of experience and reflection ... a growing in wisdom ...

"He who is without sin, cast the first stone". I wonder why Jesus said that?

I think the shuffling silence that followed answers that question!

Putting your neighbor first is only as good as your "true" intentions.

Indeed. You can't pull the woool over God's eyes.

There seems to be an implication that someone's trying to fool someone? Am I missing a point?

"Man's "morality" is subjective.

Not entirely. The Sacred Scriptures of every tradition are held to be 'given' from above, and underlie notions of morality ...

Slavery was thought to be "moral" because it was supposed to be taming the "savages" and making them "civilized" and bringing them to GOD. Guess we all know how that turned out.

So is the export of democracy and freedom at gunpoint (oops, a tad political) but there's a 'moral majority' out there who see it as a good thing ... I would suggest a little more conscience-searching against belief, would answer that question. As ever, it's not what you do, it's why you do it...

Isn't that view of morality progressive? Each generation is more moral than the one before - in which case 'we're all doomed!' and only the last generation will stand half a chance?

Simply put, diamonds are made out of coal.

Indeedy!

To "deny" is to be un-truthful. To "admit" is to begin to a journey of understanding your faults and asking GOD to help you with them. The question is not whether needs arise from either source mentioned above, it's how to handle them when they do arise.

How you handle them is either give in, or hold out - if it's the latter, that's what I meant by 'deny' (as in refuse, not as in lie about them)

Thomas

[Quahom1]

bump

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

*bip*

I couldn't access pg. 3, so...

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

[Thomas]

Bop!

I had the same problem.

Thomas

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Not sure if that's in the right order, and I would suggest the practice of asceticism is universal, and not limited to religion. I don't know of any who teach the opposite - although within every tradition there have been those who sought to pervert it.).

If im not mistaken, denial comes before detachment. Matthew 19:27
Mark 10:28. I could be mistaken though.

Religion was never an issue here.
The practice of ascetic is thought by "some" to purify the soul which comes through denial of material things which may cause detachment.
The word "some" goes beyond religion I do believe. I could be mistaken though.

True, perversion of practice comes in many forms, not just in religion. Look at the judicial system in any country and see how easily it can be swayed in some matters of conscious.

Originally Posted by Thomas

The purification of the soul comes by the stilling of every human passion to allow the transcendant to be reflected within that stillness of being - purgation - illumination - union: "be still and know that I am God" (Psalm 46:10).

Stillness only comes by asking GOD for it, not by our own strength.
Proverbs 3:5-6

Originally Posted by Thomas

There's nowt wrong with that. I think it's the Sufis who say 'act as if God is watching your every move' ... or was that my Sunday School guilt trip? Whatever, the Sufi does say 'God is closer than your jugular vein'

I think its the fruit of experience and reflection ... a growing in wisdom ....).

Ask a pregnant about how close GOD can be.

Originally Posted by Thomas

I think the shuffling silence that followed answers that question!.).

You got that right.

Originally Posted by Thomas

Indeed. You can't pull the woool over God's eyes..).

Yep

Originally Posted by Thomas

There seems to be an implication that someone's trying to fool someone? Am I missing a point?.).

No implications, just an exercise in understanding one anothers points of view. The point may have been missed. To gather info on if you "personally" could handle if GOD blessed you with everything you wanted. The extra info is helpful and hopefully will be beneficial to all. The "KISS" principle I have found works extremely well in matters such as this.

Originally Posted by Thomas

Not entirely. The Sacred Scriptures of every tradition are held to be 'given' from above, and underlie notions of morality ... .).

"Notions" is the opertative word here.

Originally Posted by Thomas

So is the export of democracy and freedom at gunpoint (oops, a tad political) but there's a 'moral majority' out there who see it as a good thing ... I would suggest a little more conscience-searching against belief, would answer that question. As ever, it's not what you do, it's why you do it....).

Exporting democracy at "gun point" is an excellent example of moral "notions"
I think the old saying goes: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Originally Posted by Thomas

Isn't that view of morality progressive? Each generation is more moral than the one before - in which case 'we're all doomed!' and only the last generation will stand half a chance?.).

Progressive morality may be a misnomer in this case, but, that may be a topic for another thread entirely.

Originally Posted by Thomas

How you handle them is either give in, or hold out - if it's the latter, that's what I meant by 'deny' (as in refuse, not as in lie about them)

Understood.

[Blue Jay]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

If God gave me everything I want...I wouldn't be here. He'd be showing me the wonders of the universe...

...but now is not the time.

Hey Q, as you're bobbing tempest tossed out in the middle of the ocean with only the sky above and the waves below...what more do you want? If that's not enough excitement, throw in a life or death crisis that depends on your skill to solve.

I always imagine that between the sky and the waves is about as close to the universe as one could wish to get. Take that from a person who has barely been from home because God's nature is just so wonderful right here at home.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Blue Jay

Hey Q, as you're bobbing tempest tossed out in the middle of the ocean with only the sky above and the waves below...what more do you want? If that's not enough excitement, throw in a life or death crisis that depends on your skill to solve.

I always imagine that between the sky and the waves is about as close to the universe as one could wish to get. Take that from a person who has barely been from home because God's nature is just so wonderful right here at home.

To the sea, to the sea, my footfalls and pathways seem to lead me ever back...to the sea.

[Blue Jay]

Yo-Eleven said:


<If GOD blessed you with everything you ever wanted, (all your heart and soul desires all at once), could you handle it?>

This answer is probably not terribly popular, but God has blessed me with far more than I even thought to ask or wish for and I think I am handling it just fine. My observation of humans in general suggests that those who have much feel about the same as those with less than a quarter of what they have. It seems to be human tendency to take their situation for granted. Inner peace is what matters, whether one has much or little. If basic needs are not met then there will be problems. Basic needs goes beyond food, clothing, and shelter. We also have emotional needs, and intellectual needs that demand being met when survival needs are met. What good is life if we have adequate food and clothing and shelter to keep us alive and physically well if life has no meaning—no challenges of any sort? No problems to solve, no pleasures to be satisfied, no questions to ask, no accomplishes or responsibilities to accomplish? Pretty blah, right? Right.

Dor said:


<If God gave me everything I think I want, I have a very strong feeling that some of it would not truly bless me.>

Put it this way. God would not stop with giving ONLY what you wish for. A good God would fill in those gaps that you hadn’t thought to ask for.

Paladin said:

<I seem to remember an old Arab curse that went: "may you get what you wish for" :0)>

Well, it stands to reason that if one is in a position where another wishes to curse one, then perhaps the present desires are not very balanced. What we wish for in our more lucid moments probably is not all that ridiculous. The highest thing I wish for myself is to enjoy life and be happy. I have been granted that. Thus, my goal is to maintain this level of satisfaction.

<I have found that within Maslows model my needs have been more than met.>

Hey! You’re speaking my language. This is what I’ve been getting at.

Snoopy said:

<When people get something like a massive money windfall>

I don’t think this gets at the heart of what we wish for. It’s just plain materialistic and what we wish for in our deepest being is not material goods.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Blue Jay

Snoopy said:

<When people get something like a massive money windfall>

I don’t think this gets at the heart of what we wish for. It’s just plain materialistic and what we wish for in our deepest being is not material goods.

Hi Blue Jay,

I think quite a lot of people would take "all their desires to be granted" as involving a good deal of material things, would it not? I'm not recommending that as the path of true happiness, just my observation. Or maybe I live in too much of a consumer society to see the deeper feelings of most people.

Snoopy.

[Blue Jay]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Hi Blue Jay,

I think quite a lot of people would take "all their desires to be granted" as involving a good deal of material things, would it not?

On the conscious level, yes. I just meant that deep down what people really want has nothing to do with material things. I think that is the level God works on. I also think that this is why, when we focus on real needs as Paladin explained per Maslow, we do get all we wish for, and more, and we are capable of handling it.

Somehow, no more insight is given at a time than the individual can handle. Yes, I've come across stories of people who had quite a struggle integrating a burst of insight. I personally have had to struggle with certain insights for years.

This does not mean that it put me out of commission for all that time; just that it was something I was working on as I traveled, to use Virtual Cliff's analogy of "the road."

Maybe this is not "handling it" if we have to work so long on it. I just figure if it does not put us out of commission so that we feel paralyzed and can't function, then we are coping okay. But others might think differently.

I'm not recommending that as the path of true happiness, just my observation. Or maybe I live in too much of a consumer society to see the deeper feelings of most people.

Snoopy.

Another possibility is that I am too idealistic.

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

So why do bad things happen to good people?

The question should be "why do good things happen to bad people?"

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by YO-ELEVEN-11

The question should be "why do good things happen to bad people?"

I suppose it depends on one's definition of "good" things...

[path_of_one]

Everything I want... well, I think the world would be wholly different. I want God's will to be done. I want the Kingdom of God on earth. I want peace and love. I want an end to human-induced suffering and poverty.

I hope I can handle it, since I believe this is eventually what will happen. I may have to die to get to it, but ultimately that's just a transition.

As for more temporary desires...
I think I either already have or could have everything I want in this lifetime, with the one exception that haven't enough time to travel to as many places as I'd like, meet as many people, or learn as many things. You know... mortality does have its limitations.

In terms of material possessions, I have tons more than I ever had as a child and I don't really want any more. Sometimes I feel like I'd rather give away about half my junk and that might make me feel better, like my living space was more peaceful and aesthetically pleasing. My house is pretty small and I don't have that much stuff compared to some, but it still feels like a lot to me.

About the only material thing (if you call them that- I don't really consider animals possessions but rather non-human people) I ever desperately desired was a horse, a dog, and a cat. I have all three, and then some.

Other than that, I just want the basics: decently good health, loving relationships, a roof over my head, time in the mountains and woods, and food. I have all that.

I'm blessed.

I do want children, but I'm completely fine with adoption and want to do that whether I have my own or not, so no matter what, if I am diligent about saving up for it, I'll have that as well.

If I won the lottery tomorrow, outside of owning a cabin in the woods rather than renting it, life would not change much. I'd still work, though I'd do it for free. The rest would get passed on to others and charities. I just really have what I want already.

Now, is there anything I want and couldn't handle? Yes, sometimes.

Ever since I was a little girl I've had times that I've wanted to give my entire life to spirituality- to be a nun or somesuch. There is often a push-pull between my desires for a relatively ordinary life (husband, kids, pets, education, science, etc.) and my desires to give over my entire life to a monastic type one, devoted entirely to service and worship.

Ultimately, at least in the here and now, I can't handle that. And I am not an "I," but rather a "we" since I'm married. I think God has His reasons for that, and perhaps the lessons I most need to learn and the areas I most need to grow spiritually are best addressed in the challenges I face as a person in a marriage, a regular job, and a regular life. I know at least with my marriage that I've learned a ton spiritually that I would not have learned if I did not have that kind of relationship. Lessons in humility and forgiveness come to mind...

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by YO-ELEVEN-11

Just a question for any who want to answer it.

From my understanding, some faiths believe in blessings from GOD.
Knowing that you can receive blessings from GOD, it makes me wonder how most people would handle such an occurence.

Question:

If GOD blessed you with everything you ever wanted, (all your heart and soul desires all at once), could you handle it?

Personally I feel that I could not handle it.
I feel that you have to be spiritually and mentally mature enough to handle certain "good" things that happen to you. (IMHO)

I don't believe anyone has been blessed with -everything- they want.... You may look at it and say errr, Bill Gates, richest person there is.... He might of been blessed with all the money he wanted.... Not really, he WORKED for his money... If the fact was he was blessed with all his riches... Why does god have favour over him and not say, you? I would say if there was a god he would treat all his faithful follwers equal.

Could I handle it? But of course, I feed on that.... I am a very material driven person... I am wealthy and want to be even more wealthy and I just don't "stop" Enough is never enough. But all I have is through certain situations and my own hard work, I have earned all I have... It isn't a blessing... It isn't a gift, it's something that is deserved and owed. Anything that is "good" that happens to me.. I wouldn't stop to give thanks for a blessing.. It's because I made it happen...

And as I said I am more material/earthy, I have no spiritual wants or needs... So I couldn't comment on anything like that, cause I don't want anything spiritually.