Bible inspired by God or just written by man?

[Prober]

Originally Posted by manephelien

I wholly agree with this one.

However, I fully believe that there did exist a rabble-rouser called Jesus in the Palestine about 2000 years ago. He certainly suffered the fate ordinarily meted out by the Romans to rebels and criminals, i. e. crucifixion.

The only miracle I believe in there is one that's not written down. How did Mary, a common prostitute, manage to convince Joseph that she had been divinely impregnated, and later managed to get her son to change the world? Jesus of Nazareth did exist, but there's nothing divine about his conception or birth.

Please explain how you come to the conclusion that Mary was a "common prostitute".

[Dor]

Originally Posted by manephelien

I wholly agree with this one.

However, I fully believe that there did exist a rabble-rouser called Jesus in the Palestine about 2000 years ago. He certainly suffered the fate ordinarily meted out by the Romans to rebels and criminals, i. e. crucifixion.

The only miracle I believe in there is one that's not written down. How did Mary, a common prostitute, manage to convince Joseph that she had been divinely impregnated, and later managed to get her son to change the world? Jesus of Nazareth did exist, but there's nothing divine about his conception or birth.

Wow where the hell did you pull that from.
Mary a common prostitute. Think you might have your Marys a bit mixed up.

[manephelien]

I guess common prostitute was a bit harsh. I just meant that since I don't believe the father of Jesus was anything other than a flesh-and-blood man, Mary must've pulled some wool over Joseph's eyes to convince him she carried the son of God, if he didn't impregnate her, that is. And on the whole I'm inclined to believe he didn't.

On the other hand, I think Mary Magdalene has been unnecessarily maligned as a woman of loose morals. I'm far more likely to believe she was Jesus' wife, since a Jew must be married before he can be a teacher/rabbi.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by manephelien

I wholly agree with this one.

My humble thanks....

[pfw]

[quote=manephelien;77210]I guess common prostitute was a bit harsh. I just meant that since I don't believe the father of Jesus was anything other than a flesh-and-blood man, Mary must've pulled some wool over Joseph's eyes to convince him she carried the son of God, if he didn't impregnate her, that is. And on the whole I'm inclined to believe he didn't.

So, just because you don't believe in the 'Immaculate Conception' (I'm right there with you by the way) it automaticaly follows the Mary, the mother of Jesus, was just a slut then? So absolutly no possibility that she could have been raped by a Roman solger? or that her father may have abused her? or a good few other possibilities... No, we'll just jump straight for the most insulting possible answer to the question then.

[Paladin]

We may have to get Q or Thomas in on this one, but wasn't the Immaculate Conception a reference to the idea that Mary herself was free of original sin? The Virgin Birth story was very prevelant during the time when the Gospels began to appear and it would seem likely that it was incorporated into the story of Jesus. Even if it is only in the realm of mythology, I really love the story

Peace
Mark

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Paladin

wasn't the Immaculate Conception a reference to the idea that Mary herself was free of original sin?

NO!?!?!?!?!? lol... Sheesh... Mary was just a woman... She ain't nothing special... Apart from that in this story of jesus and so on she was simply the vessle for jesus... She was "imperfect" just like anyone else... She was but human. The reason she was meant to be a virgin because jesus in this tale is perfect.. If he carried her genes he would clearly not be... He would have orginal sin... So Mary didn't get it on with Joe or any other human, cause then it would be just like any other kid. god placed jesus in her womb. So technically he was of no relation at all of Mary.

My mini cheese burgers mmmm they are perfect... I place them in the microwave and the microwave heats them and holds onto them till they are ready... Then they pop out and bingo! A perfect snack.... The microwave didn't make the snack perfect, it was allready perfect it simply had a job to help the burger on its way... Any other microwave could do the exact same job....

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Paladin

We may have to get Q or Thomas in on this one, but wasn't the Immaculate Conception a reference to the idea that Mary herself was free of original sin? The Virgin Birth story was very prevelant during the time when the Gospels began to appear and it would seem likely that it was incorporated into the story of Jesus. Even if it is only in the realm of mythology, I really love the story

Peace
Mark

During the Council of Trent, Mary was declared free of original sin. This developed from Genesis 3: 15, and Luke 1: 28. However, the church has backed off of this concept as of late. What is known is that she never knew man in the biblical way (at least prior to the birth of Jesus), hence was pure. Also, she accepted the honor/burden despite the potential repercussions she could have faced (an unwed mother at that time was not the best status to be in). She was indeed "full of grace".

v/r

Joshua

[Quahom1]

[quote=pfw;89564]

Originally Posted by manephelien

I guess common prostitute was a bit harsh. I just meant that since I don't believe the father of Jesus was anything other than a flesh-and-blood man, Mary must've pulled some wool over Joseph's eyes to convince him she carried the son of God, if he didn't impregnate her, that is. And on the whole I'm inclined to believe he didn't.

So, just because you don't believe in the 'Immaculate Conception' (I'm right there with you by the way) it automaticaly follows the Mary, the mother of Jesus, was just a slut then? So absolutly no possibility that she could have been raped by a Roman solger? or that her father may have abused her? or a good few other possibilities... No, we'll just jump straight for the most insulting possible answer to the question then.

Hail Mary, Full of grace, the Lord is with thee,
blessed is thee, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.

Indeed, a 14 year old Levite "prostitute" in Israel at the time of Jesus, who was about to be married to a son of the tribe of Judah (and the lineage of David)? You really don't know much about the society of Mary and Joseph, I should think...

v/r

Joshua

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

NO!?!?!?!?!? lol... Sheesh... Mary was just a woman... She ain't nothing special... Apart from that in this story of jesus and so on she was simply the vessle for jesus... She was "imperfect" just like anyone else... She was but human. The reason she was meant to be a virgin because jesus in this tale is perfect.. If he carried her genes he would clearly not be... He would have orginal sin... So Mary didn't get it on with Joe or any other human, cause then it would be just like any other kid. god placed jesus in her womb. So technically he was of no relation at all of Mary.

My mini cheese burgers mmmm they are perfect... I place them in the microwave and the microwave heats them and holds onto them till they are ready... Then they pop out and bingo! A perfect snack.... The microwave didn't make the snack perfect, it was allready perfect it simply had a job to help the burger on its way... Any other microwave could do the exact same job....

Really? There is the argument that if Adam and Eve had never fallen, there would have been no other "humans" to follow. They would have been the perfect companions for God...no babies. Hence no mixing egg with seed and perpetuating man (no need). No original sin.

Second, we know for fact that a human female can gestate without a male's input, but the result is always female (identical to that of the mother). The miracle of Jesus is that he was born, and not a female identical to Mary...

v/r

Joshua

[pfw]

[quote=Quahom1;89592]

Originally Posted by pfw

Hail Mary, Full of grace, the Lord is with thee,
blessed is thee, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.

Indeed, a 14 year old Levite "prostitute" in Israel at the time of Jesus, who was about to be married to a son of the tribe of Judah (and the lineage of David)? You really don't know much about the society of Mary and Joseph, I should think...

v/r

Joshua

Just a quick question-is this replying to me or the post by Manephelien? I to me I'd like to point out that I aint the one who said Mary was a 14 year old prostitute etc. I did say that I don't believe in the virgin birth. What I was trying to point out was that ASSUMING Mary was pregnant before she married Joseph and ASSUMING the child wasn't Josheph there are OTHER possibilities for that without resorting to calling Mary a prostitute/slut. Oh and, no I don't know much about the culture and society of Isreal 2000 years ago.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Really? There is the argument that if Adam and Eve had never fallen, there would have been no other "humans" to follow. They would have been the perfect companions for God...no babies. Hence no mixing egg with seed and perpetuating man (no need). No original sin.

Yah, becuase if they had never "fallen" then they wouldn't wish to carry on god's law to populate and subdue the planet...... Perfect people care not for sex ;D

Ohhh So humans were to be companions for god? god -needed- company did he? Hmmm...

[wil]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quahom1
Really? There is the argument that if Adam and Eve had never fallen, there would have been no other "humans" to follow. They would have been the perfect companions for God...no babies. Hence no mixing egg with seed and perpetuating man (no need). No original sin. Yah, becuase if they had never "fallen" then they wouldn't wish to carry on god's law to populate and subdue the planet...... Perfect people care not for sex ;D

Ohhh So humans were to be companions for god? god -needed- company did he? Hmmm...

If they had not fallen there may not even be humans at all.... Wasn't till afterword he put skin on them