Bible inspired by God or just written by man?

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by Curios Mike

I have a few questions for salty.

That's another thing -- ritual cleanliness is a prevalent theme in the Bible, Old and New Testaments.

Where is this commanded in the new testament?

The things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these are the things that make a person ritually unclean. For from his heart come the evil ideas which lead him to murder, commit adultery and do other immoral things: to rob, lie and slander others. These are the things that make a person unclean. But to eat without washing you hands as they say you should -- this doesn't make a person unclean. Matthew 15:18-20

At that time you surrendered yourselves entirely as slaves to impurity and wickedness for wicked purposes. In the same way you must now surrender yourselves entirely as slaves of righteousness for holy purposes. Romans 6:19

You must put to death, then, the earthly desires at work in you, such as sexual immorality, indecency, lust, evil passions and greed. Colossians 3:5

He is the one who holds the whole building together and makes it grow into a sacred temple dedicated to the Lord. Ephesians 2:21

What the human nature does is quite plain. It shows itself in immoral, filthy and indecent actions; in the worship of idols and witchcraft . . . I warn you that those who do these things will not possess the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

Come as living stones, and let yourselves be used in building the spiritual temple, where you will serve as holy priests to offer spiritual and acceptable sacrifices to God through Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 2:5

What else can I say? Life is about rituals. The Epistles clearly support this view. It's just that in today's modern society, our secular views make us "dismiss" ritualistic concepts in the Bible as the "superstitious nonsense" of the past. These ritualistic concepts are part of the Christian Gospel and should not be neglected.

A person will reap exactly what he plants. If he plants in the field of his natural desires, from it he will gather the harvest of death. If he plants in the field of the Spirit (of God), from the Spirit he will gather the harvest of eternal life. Galatians 6:7-8

You reap what you sow. What goes round comes round. When you do good deeds, it makes other people's lives better. They in turn will be able to help others. Those helped will then help you. If your deeds are evil, it ruins people's lives, and they in turn ruin other people's lives.

The rituals you perform are what you sow. The rituals other people have performed are what you reap. Eventually, what you contribute will come back in some form or another.

Originally Posted by Curios Mike

And Say Awaiting_the_fifth is an ungodly man and did all sorts of evil things according to the bible, but Ok to the law of the land, should he be killed?

(((( Awaiting_the_fifth..... I mean no offense but being that you two are hot and heavy I figured I'd use you as the caracter of my question)))

Not exactly, I just had a few brief skirmishes with him. It's nothing personal. I just respond to whatever I find on the forum.

The killing of the Canaanites was symbolic of what God would do when "the end of the world" comes. It was an event that happened as a warning of what would happen in the future in the End Times.

Everybody is going to be judged anyway, so even if Awaiting the Fifth is not a Canaanite, he would still be punished for what he did.

The moral of the story with the killing of the Canaanites is that at the end of the world, people like Awaiting the Fifth (in real life he's a good guy, but in this example he isn't ) will be wiped out, not by the sword, but by Judgment.

Awaiting the Fifth, this is nothing personal. I was just using you as an example. You're not really a bad guy. It was Mike's idea.

Only the righteous will inherit the earth. Dead people will come back to life and if they are judged to have been "righteous" they will be allowed to live here for eternity.

See? Life here is only temporal. Just because God wipes out the Canaanites doesn't mean he's a mass murderer. If some of them were good people, especially the children, they will be brought back to life and live with us for eternity.

It's like the killing never happened.

For example, Buddhists and Hindus believe in reincarnation. You kill someone in your past life. You get reincarnated. You meet the person you killed in your current life. It may be that neither of you remember the killing. It's like it never even happened.

It's like reincarnation that only happens once in your whole existence.

And so it is with the Canaanites.

Originally Posted by Curios Mike

{{{{{

Originally Posted by Curios Mike

I also have a request..... being that we keep stating the Bible says this or it says that; if it is possible for you would you quote what it says, or at least leave a refference to where to find it..... Also on the deffinitions, or other commentaries or other scripture from other books.....}}}}}}}

Sorry about that. I tend to write these things in a rush.

There are also times when I assume people know what stories I'm actually talking about.

[Jeff]

The veiws expressed by many people here have done nothing more but to further shake my faith in religion.

Genocide is wrong, nothing any of you can say can change this fact. you can try to justifiy genocide( or should I say ritual cleansing) and say that it was ok for some reason or another, but if genocide is something that the Christian God sees as permitable then he does not deserve to be worshiped.

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

And in regards to Saltmeister's question- was it really bad for these kids to be killed? Yes. I think killing children is completely abhorrent, under all circumstances. No matter how they are being brought up- as Nazis, as terrorists, as whatever- they are still children. And we must remember that the text reads that even the youngest infants were killed. Surely, no person would argue that such cruelty as slaughtering infants during war is justifed?

(Although I suppose if one wants to get around the issue, one could argue that they weren't human, and so somehow it's OK. It's just not an argument I can buy into.)

Well, I might present to you an alternative here.

One point I'd like to make first of all is that life here is temporal.

As I've been saying, the killing of the Canaanites was symbolic of what God would do when "the end of the world" came. It's an event that warns us of what's going to happen in the future in the End Times.

God's people will inherit the earth. Who God's people really are is another question.

You might say it's unfair for the Canaanites to be singled-out and chosen as "victims" even though there were other evil people around. Then again, life here is temporal. We will all eventually die. God simply cut their lives short. These Canaanites are now either in the world of the dead, or they're now with God in heaven.

Also, the Jews were unfortunate enough to be singled-out and chosen as God's people and they spent 40 years wandering in the desert because they didn't have respect for Him. After 40 years they were supposedly well-behaved and respectful enough of God "to deserve the honour" of performing this ritual cleansing ceremony against the Canaanites.

The Jews were chosen not because they were superior, but they were just chosen.

Perhaps I could say that even if there were a lot of bad apples in the Jewish race and quite a few bright shining angels in the Canaanite race, it didn't matter. The Jews served as prototype/archetype of a holy nation. The Canaanites served as a prototype/archetype for an unholy nation.

It's part of a prophecy of the future.

Alright, you might ask, where's the prophecy? The entire Old Testament story is itself a prophecy. For example, Jesus was a liberator just like Moses. Moses freed the Israelites from slavery by the Egyptians, and Jesus freed us from the power of sin.

Regardless of who was who, all good and evil people will be judged no matter when they have died and how. On Judgment Day, all dead people, wherever they come from, will be raised to life to stand Judgment. Some of those Canaanites, especially the children, may inherit the earth. The bad apples among the Jews will go to hell.

This ritual cleansing act serves as a warning to all of us, so it really didn't matter who was good and who was evil in that ritual cleansing act.

It's more like the killing of the Canaanites never happened at all. Think about it. Life here is temporal. God makes our lives relatively short to give us time to choose between His Kingdom, and kingdoms offered by demons in hell.

The children who were killed will probably be resurrected, stand Judgment and if they were good, enter God's Kingdom anyway. Being killed as a Canaanite wouldn't necessarily disqualify you from inheriting the earth in the Perfect Age. Being a Jew doesn't mean you end up in this paradise either.

In one of my earlier posts I said that it was a bit like reincarnation in Buddhism and Hinduism, except that it only happens once. You kill someone in your past life and maybe get demoted or stay in the same place in this life. When you meet your victim of your past life in this life, neither him or you are likely to remember what happened.

It's as if it doesn't matter.

If it wasn't genocide then it was just ritual cleansing. If you were a good person as a Canaanite, that ritual cleansing didn't apply to you, and on Judgment Day you inherit the earth anyway. Your life as a Canaanite would only have been temporary.

The reason why every living thing (except small creatures like tiny insects and spiders) had to be killed was to destroy the whole memory of that unholy nation. People had to forget that it ever even existed.

That's just like what's going to happen in the End Times. All evil on earth will be destroyed as if it never existed.

One thing the Gospel teaches is that if we believe in Christ, we're not harmed by sin or physical death.

When Christ died physically, he preached the Gospel to the people in the world of the dead and those who believed went to heaven. Some of these were probably the Canaanites killed by the Israelites.

This is one way of seeing it without dehumanising the Canaanites.

Perhaps you can't buy this either, but the way I see is that the world/reality we live in was never meant to exist forever. There is something better for us in God's Kingdom.

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by Jeff

The veiws expressed by many people here have done nothing more but to further shake my faith in religion.

Genocide is wrong, nothing any of you can say can change this fact. you can try to justifiy genocide( or should I say ritual cleansing) and say that it was ok for some reason or another, but if genocide is something that the Christian God sees as permitable then he does not deserve to be worshiped.

God decides who lives and who doesn't live, when, where and how.

People who are dead can come back to life.

With what I said earlier about the Canaanites and Jews symbolising what's going to happen in the future where God's people inherit the earth, are you saying that God has no right to exclude people from inheriting the earth?

In the future it won't be the sword that condemns people, but the Sword of Judgment. That's the moral of the story.

If some of the Canaanites the Jews killed end up in heaven because they were good, so be it. The ritual cleansing act was just a sign.

Why call it genocide if our existence here is temporal? Don't you don't believe in an afterlife? Don't you believe in the other world? Don't you believe that one day all good people will inherit the earth?

Genocide is only genocide if the legacy of what happened lives on forever. However, if God has the power to resurrect people then it's no longer genocide because it's as if they never died.

As I said, you believe it's genocide because that's your reality. You obviously don't believe in afterlife or resurrection. It seems you're judging everything on what happens in this world. Afterlife and resurrection are not part of your reality. You judge everything in physical terms.

To me spirituality is something truly spiritual. To you it's psychology, neurology, neuroscience, brain science and the physiology and biochemistry of the brain. Yet the brain is controlled by the laws of physics. Planck's Constant and Electrostatics. Just a bunch of atoms, molecules, cells, vacuoles, enzymes and protoplasm.

No wonder you value physical existence so highly. It seems that people couldn't possibly exist in another world or another reality.

Despite the science and technology, people in this world still can't make up their mind on what reality is. Without a God, people have all sorts of ideas on what reality was meant to be but there's no unifying model.

Temporal existence means we don't live in this reality forever. Ever seen the movie Matrix? It's about people plugging themselves into a virtual reality. The problem is, the people controlled by the Matrix don't know they're part of a virtual reality. They think it's the real reality.

That's why I called this post "Reality, Logic and Superstitious Nonsense."

You may think religions are superstitious nonsense, but then you're own reality becomes nonsense. No reality, no God. No God, no reality.

Perhaps we're all part of a laboratory simulation. Who's the God of the lab workers, then?

Jeff, may God have mercy on you and me if we don't discover the true reality.

[Jeff]

Saltmeister,

You are right i do not beleive in a afterlife. i believe this as strongly as you beleive that there is one, and there is our problem. you think that it is ok to impose your beleifs on other people, which is never a good thing, but when you beleifes involve wiping whole races of people from the face of the planet, it is evil.

[lunamoth]

I hope it goes without saying that very few Christians would try to defend genocide and ethnic cleansing as Biblically prescribed ritualistic cleansing (or at all). This whole line of thinking is abhorrent to myself as a human being and as a Christian.

lunamoth

[satay]

I belive that Bible is written by men and inspired by men. Concept of GOD presented in the bible is way too close to the human nature. Anger, jealousy, envy etc. all these are human emotions...Does GOD have these qualities?
Should he/she have these qualities?

satay

[Kelcie]

Originally Posted by Jeff

The veiws expressed by many people here have done nothing more but to further shake my faith in religion.

Genocide is wrong, nothing any of you can say can change this fact. you can try to justifiy genocide( or should I say ritual cleansing) and say that it was ok for some reason or another, but if genocide is something that the Christian God sees as permitable then he does not deserve to be worshiped.

Hi Jeff,

It is unfortunate that people will have views that differ from yours. However, do not let other peoples view shake your faith. What you have come to know and come to learn from your faith can only be confirmed from within. It is not dependent on what others say that determine your relationship with God. If they do not impart the wisdom you seek, discard it. You obviously dont feel the need to bring out the whole bible to justify your view for me this is a good thing. Eventually you will also understand where other people are at and let it slip by you without affecting your faith.

Genocide is Man's doing not God's doing. This thread illustrates well how easily people (not God) will do whatever it takes to protect their own beliefs or force their understanding on another. Gladly, Im sure it wont end in Genocide.

Stay Strong
Kelcie

[Kelcie]

Originally Posted by satay

I belive that Bible is written by men and inspired by men. Concept of GOD presented in the bible is way too close to the human nature. Anger, jealousy, envy etc. all these are human emotions...Does GOD have these qualities?
Should he/she have these qualities?

satay

Hi Satay,

The truest form of human nature is quite pure. However in the manifest it is everchanging and becomes mistaken for human nature in its entirety. In the manifest I would agree, the human emotions are prevalent in the bible.

God has all these and more but not in the way you would suspect. They are far beyond our minds concept of them. These emotions do not destroy they uplift, they nurture growth, they promote higher understandings of GOD.

Kelcie

[satay]

Originally Posted by Kelcie

Hi Satay,

The truest form of human nature is quite pure. However in the manifest it is everchanging and becomes mistaken for human nature in its entirety. In the manifest I would agree, the human emotions are prevalent in the bible.

God has all these and more but not in the way you would suspect. They are far beyond our minds concept of them. These emotions do not destroy they uplift, they nurture growth, they promote higher understandings of GOD.

Kelcie

Namaste Kelcie,
Thanks for the response.

Obviously, what you say about the emotions etc. is valid.
My problem is not with the human emotions per se, my problem is that the men who worte the bible have imagined God as behaving like humans! E.g. the verses about God getting angry and jealous. These men have made God look like some kind of tyrant in the sense that if you don't please him or do something that will not please him he will throw you in a fire pit, eternaly, mind you. These writers have made God look like a child that gets into a tantrum mode if his wishes are not fulfilled. No, such writings could not have been inspired by and entity known as God.

satay

[Curios Mike]

Salt I'm confused.... I understood you as saying ritual cleaning was killing other people becuase they are evil (namely the Canaanites)..... This is not in the new testament.?.? When Christ fullfilled the law we went from fighting our enemies to turning the other cheek.


Matt 5:38-46
38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.
43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
NKJV

Basicaly Jesus tuaght us to be servants not masters, humble not proud, and Self less not selfish....

Ok I'm not Defending Geniside.... I've asked many questions to God in my life some have been answered. But I do know this I will not let someoneelse interpretation of the Bible, or any other writing shake my faith in God. But then again He has prooved Himself time and time again to me. Especially when I was trying to break all ties with Him. Sounds like Jeff may be goin through the phase I was goin through, or much worse. Meaning You never believed and are trying your best not to believe. I agree Christians are not suppost to force their faith on anyone, BUT it is commanded that we share it. And for some groups to tell us we are not allowed to are just as bad as the Christians who do force it on others.......

Anyways back to my origianl point of geniside...... again I'm not defending it, becuase I agree that killing is wrong, but I also believe that its justified in protecting(if their is no other choice), or If someone is just soooo bad he cannot be rehabilited (namely a murderer,serial killers, pedifiles,rapest, or anything along those lines or worse in severity), or just did something soooo terrible (Or was capable and willing) that the world would be much beter off without them (Namely Hitler, Stalin, Hussien, or any other world leader, or even a nation, or group that would do such a thing). But the problem with the last is hind sight is Twenty Twenty so we never knew these guys where that bad until after the fact. And as Far as a nation or Group how do you know all in them are capable of such bad acts unless you are all knowing? So noe of us would be able to make such a terrible call..... Anywasy onces again I'm rambling back to my original question....

My question is: was the bombing of Japan in WWII (Nuclear) Geniside..... If so How many more, or less people do you think might have died had The U.S. not done this? Does it make it right????? I guess we should start with why where we fighting in the 1st place...... Was it becuase Japan attacked pearl..... Or was it becuase we stopped selling and buying important goods to with Japan...... or Does it just all come down to mans own selfishness and greed? You cant tell me man is not selfish and Greedy... Look at history and look at the way things are; in this world.... One catch phrase that sticks out is the rich keep gettin richer and the poor keep gettin poorer. Look at how corrupt pharmisudical Companies have gotten, even our own FDA, or the oil companies, Big business, or Giant Unions...... China, Europe, U.S., and the muslim worlds. All want to be bigger and baddest, or the Super Power. WHY?????????

LOL anyways Sorry that was a bit more then I was wanting to type. And I jump around quite a bit again. But these are the questions I have when I look around. Some of these can point to God, some of these may not. It depeneds on our knowledge of things both in the Physical World, and The spiritual World. LOL It also sepends on perspective....Namely How do you see the cup? Half full or half empty?

[Curios Mike]

satay stated

he will throw you in a fire pit, eternaly

Are you refering to what you have read or what some preachers preach? Some preachers tend to fucos on this one aspect, but less on Gods mercies. Or did you just do a search on how Gods wrath is, or have you actually read the book? Its True the Bible does clearly state God is jealous, and a judge, but it also clearly states how merciful he has been. But I'm not sure how to answer your question becuase I'm not knowing where your question oridinated... meaning are you simply an aithiest who doesnt care to know, or a person who heard a few hard nose to the grind preachers and have a terrible out look on God?

[satay]

Originally Posted by Curios Mike

satay stated


Are you refering to what you have read or what some preachers preach? Some preachers tend to fucos on this one aspect, but less on Gods mercies. Or did you just do a search on how Gods wrath is, or have you actually read the book? Its True the Bible does clearly state God is jealous, and a judge, but it also clearly states how merciful he has been. But I'm not sure how to answer your question becuase I'm not knowing where your question oridinated... meaning are you simply an aithiest who doesnt care to know, or a person who heard a few hard nose to the grind preachers and have a terrible out look on God?

Hello Curious Mike,
You seem a bit irritated by my post. Irritating anyone was not my intent.
To answer your question, No, I am not an atheist. I am in fact an adherent of Sanatan Dharma.

My understanding of the bible very well be faulty. Please correct me. What is your understanding of Hell? It has been said that Jesus talked more about Hell than he did about Heaven. Is that correct? What exactly is Hell? Is it a state of mind or a physical place?

satay

[Kelcie]

Originally Posted by satay

Namaste Kelcie,
Thanks for the response.

Obviously, what you say about the emotions etc. is valid.
My problem is not with the human emotions per se, my problem is that the men who worte the bible have imagined God as behaving like humans! E.g. the verses about God getting angry and jealous. These men have made God look like some kind of tyrant in the sense that if you don't please him or do something that will not please him he will throw you in a fire pit, eternaly, mind you. These writers have made God look like a child that gets into a tantrum mode if his wishes are not fulfilled. No, such writings could not have been inspired by and entity known as God.

satay

Hi satay,

Agreed the writers of the bible have indeed tried to portray God as humanlike. Perhaps they did the best they knew how when writing. Perhaps that was not how it was intended and in translating the original texts the translators distorted the messages by omission. Still, if one looked deep enough the original message has survived.

Kelcie

[Kelcie]

Hi Curios Mike,

I would like to share my thoughts on your post.

38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'

Matt 5:38-46

The power of God is designed (cant think of a better word sorry) in such a way that what you give you get. A bit like the eastern philosophies karma concept. The covenant given by GOD is designed to protect you from this giving and getting. The eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, refers to getting what you give. What you sow you reap is another reference to this. With the covenant however it protects you from this. It is not the laws of the covenant but how you become. Why? It promotes giving and serving, that is comprised of one intrinsic value and that is love. Not the conditional love that our minds know an unconditional love. So I would agree "Basicaly Jesus tuaght us to be servants not masters, humble not proud, and Self less not selfish...."

But I do know this I will not let someoneelse interpretation of the Bible, or any other writing shake my faith in God.

This is good to know!

I agree Christians are not suppost to force their faith on anyone, BUT it is commanded that we share it. And for some groups to tell us we are not allowed to are just as bad as the Christians who do force it on others.......

It is not that you cannot share it. It is how you share it that is important.

So noe of us would be able to make such a terrible call.....

If you mean condemning a man to death. I agree.

I guess we should start with why where we fighting in the 1st place...... Was it becuase Japan attacked pearl..... Or was it becuase we stopped selling and buying important goods to with Japan...... or Does it just all come down to mans own selfishness and greed?

Except for the lessons learned and the ones still to learn, does it all really matter in the now

LOL anyways Sorry that was a bit more then I was wanting to type. And I jump around quite a bit again. But these are the questions I have when I look around. Some of these can point to God, some of these may not. It depeneds on our knowledge of things both in the Physical World, and The spiritual World.

It always find it insightful reading anothers perspective. Thanks

Kelcie