beyond infinity

[rdwillia]

Hello!

Originally Posted by _Z_

What I would say is that ‘you cannot build up to infinity’ [I like that one], no matter how far we travel we never arrive at the end, and there is continually an infinite ‘amount’ before us, and that indeed we cannot have an infinite amount!

So true! Kind of along the same lines as "Wherever you go, there you are." But the reverse of that would be we also have an infinite "amount" behind us. Thank goodness! I wonder about this in terms of religion, any religion. Because I believe this to be true, yet in almost any religion there is some sort of 'end'. Perhaps an end that is yet another beginning. Maybe we have a whole other school of thought once we get wherever we're trying to go, that deals with this.

Originally Posted by _Z_

I would presume that if you could have an infinite amount of planets, then you could have an infinite amount of blue planets, an infinite amount of red planets X an infinite amount of blue planets with or without life etc. – but we cannot! [It would be paradoxical all over the place if we did!].

Perhaps I over simplified my example. But it wouldn't be so odd to think that life, infinite planets over, might require that life be carbon based.

As for your ideas on thought... I agree there as well. I believe in some Hindu traditions they refer to Samsara as the endless cycle of thought. Your mind has a cyclic nature and will infinitely revolve around thoughts. The goal is to create grooves in the "wheel" of thought so that you can eventually have a clear mind... Until you get it down into one big groove and then ware that wheel down, etc, etc... In meditation it would go something like this... I'm sitting down and clearing my mind of all thought. I'm not thinking, I'm not thinking.... And finally... Ah, this is nice, no thought. You enjoy it for two seconds and then you think, wow that was really nice. I like having a clear mind. Shoot! That's a thought! Then you spend the next ten minutes trying to clear your mind again... and it goes on and on and on... Viola! Infinite (yet limited) thought.

Originally Posted by Bandit

seriously- if we are going BEYOND infinity, then we wont be at the same place we started & we wont be there right now either. (that is new age stuff) we would be way off the track- a track with a beginning but there would be no end. like a race track where you never run out of gas!

I would have to agree with Z about not travelling, just being there. And hey, it's not our fault the New Agers decided to pick up on a few (emphasis on the 'few') good ideas and run with them. Sorry, that's not nice... I realize none of this really makes sense, it's all theoretical, but I think it's more of a practice to help me expand my mind. I know when my brain hurts... I must be making progress, right? That's the only real purpose of doing all of this thinking, to broaden our "real" world minds.

Originally Posted by _Z_

I think everyone who posts on this thread should give me a planet!

Shoot Z, I'd give you a quarter of all the infinite "number" of planets. There we could have our pub chat.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by rdwillia

Hello!


I would have to agree with Z about not travelling, just being there. And hey, it's not our fault the New Agers decided to pick up on a few (emphasis on the 'few') good ideas and run with them. Sorry, that's not nice... I realize none of this really makes sense, it's all theoretical, but I think it's more of a practice to help me expand my mind. I know when my brain hurts... I must be making progress, right? That's the only real purpose of doing all of this thinking, to broaden our "real" world minds.

yah. but for some reason i cant do it by not travelling. unless we are going to beyond infinity & back BUT- i dont plan on coming back if i dont have to .
i think that is why i like the mirror & telescope analogy.
i see it more in distance than numbers or just arriving at where i have always been. that seems to simple for me. i think of the numbers as gallons of gasoline & miles.
actually rdwillia, it does all make sense to me.
or maybe when the brain hurts you are making progress & when it stops hurting you are beyond infinity. or you are beyond infinity when the brain hurts (not sure)

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by _Z_

Bandit.

I am fine mate! thanx



Ha yes, except we don’t start – we arrive there at once! But no it’s a bit like taking a leap of faith! We can skirt around the idea of ‘naked reality’ [infinity beyond infinity] only ever enveloping it – at most.

So given an infinite amount of worlds – what would yours be like?! [if you read earlier posts].



I think everyone who posts on this thread should give me a planet!



Z

i think that is where i am now. infinity beyond infinity because this is not like the local pub.
i will have to get back to you on my infinite amount of worlds & you can have any planet except Jupiter & Saturn.

[rdwillia]

Hello Bandit,

Originally Posted by Bandit

yah. but for some reason i cant do it by not travelling. unless we are going to beyond infinity & back BUT- i dont plan on coming back if i dont have to .
i think that is why i like the mirror & telescope analogy.
i see it more in distance than numbers or just arriving at where i have always been. that seems to simple for me. i think of the numbers as gallons of gasoline & miles.
actually rdwillia, it does all make sense to me.
or maybe when the brain hurts you are making progress & when it stops hurting you are beyond infinity. or you are beyond infinity when the brain hurts (not sure)

I understand what you mean about traveling infinity. I kind of visualize myself in my own submarine style space-ship. I usually try to refrain from telling people this.

Apparently we can't quite conceptualize not traveling. Unfortunately with the mirror and telescope analogy everything (for me) keeps getting smaller and smaller and it comes to a point where I can't see it any more. Even with a telescope, I can see more but they still get smaller towards the end. I just picture space and a lot of stars... and I just keep traveling forever. There's another good analogy hidden in that last statement. Perhaps when we stop traveling and just get there, is when we'll really wake up!

But like Z says, "You can't build up to infinity." Traveling would be building up. It just is... in all directions. There I go traveling again... Ciao!

[rdwillia]

I should mention that in all reality, I see this 'theoretical' infinity as emptiness or the void in some of my more productive meditations. Complete, unending, bliss where mathematics and making sense of things doesn't matter. There is no paradox, no biases, no differences, just bliss. Where I feel blissful about all of this apparent creation, even it's apparent faults. It's like waking up after a really pleasant nights sleep. It's exists somewhere deep within all of us. I know it's there. I can't always get there but I have glimpsed it for brief periods and plan on a permanent relocation sometime in the near future. That to me, in my very humble opinion, is what it's all about.

I grew up despising the post 70's hippies (as I wasn't around to see the real hippies) and I'm aware that the above sounds silly and hippy-ish but it's so true. I am so ready for all of us to fully and directly experience the spiritual infinity that it hurts.

Peace.

[_Z_]

Bandit,

Any planet except Saturn – but I am a Capricorn! .

Infinity beyond infinity because this is not like the local pub

yea, nirvana [beyond infinity - kinda] is nice and peaceful, but I would rather hand out in an infinite pub- with eternity as the beer garden! Not forgetting the nymphs of course!



Rdwillia,



We may have to arrive straight ‘there’, but then of course one can travel to anywhere in eternity! With the infinite eye we can see all things, hmm I wonder if we chose to come here? - if infinity is the home of the original self!

I see this 'theoretical' infinity as emptiness or the void in some of my more productive meditations

As I see it too! Just remember it has no edges – it is always with us and part of us, as we are it. This also applies to an amoeba!



Z

[Rouge47]

You have brought up an interesting thread _Z_. I have always wondered if the universe is infinite or if it actually ends.

In the movie "The 13th Floor" the main character comes to the end of the virtual world. The end that has not yet been developed. He gets out of his car and walks to the edge and stares at it. A vast land of nothing but a green and black grided pattern of a virtual computer.

Does the Universe that we know of today ever end? Or does it go on and on with random planets or stars.

Is it like a sphere? Like, whenever you reach the end of it you appear the opposite end of the angle in which you exited or entered?

Or is it like a cube? Bouncing around off the walls whenever the end is reached.
Infinity keeps on going, and going, and going, and going, and going......

.....and going, and going....

Like the energizer bunny with the drum.

What is beyond infinity?
Is there even a beyond?
How can one travel the length of infinite?
How can one reach the end of a universe in which we believe is infinite.
What is the purpose of the vast space that surrounds us?
Why did God (my belief) choose to create a space of darkness (but yet of beauty) that we cannot comprehend?
Why is there even an infinite?
Is infinite chaotic or lenear?

So many questions, infact an infinte number of them.

PJ

[_Z_]

Paul James, hi.



Yes I have seen that film. I would say that you cannot have an infinite universe – there are too many paradoxes. Infinity and the universe are imo part of the universal whole, each being a reflection of the others incapability to become the other!

The universe is sphere-like, then imagine everywhere is the centre yet a sphere has only one centre – the surface is then everywhere too!


Infinity is beyond infinity! – When the infinite is used comparatively to anything other than itself!

You cannot travel the length of infinity [or build up to it in any way] – you can only arrive there at once.

There is no beginning or end.

There is a vast space surrounding us, because the universe wants to stretch to all limits finding all its forms – and if you put it all together so there is no space between, then you would arrive at the singularity i.e. the beginning [big bang].

Not sure if I believe in a creator god, as I draw no lines between things thus everything is god [given that there is a god]. And I do believe that we can comprehend it – at least that which is comprehendible.

Infinity is not chaotic or linear, it is incomparative – a beautiful emptiness!


Thanx for reply



Z

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by _Z_

Paul James, hi.



Yes I have seen that film. I would say that you cannot have an infinite universe – there are too many paradoxes. Infinity and the universe are imo part of the universal whole, each being a reflection of the others incapability to become the other!

The universe is sphere-like, then imagine everywhere is the centre yet a sphere has only one centre – the surface is then everywhere too!


Infinity is beyond infinity! – When the infinite is used comparatively to anything other than itself!

You cannot travel the length of infinity [or build up to it in any way] – you can only arrive there at once.

There is no beginning or end.

There is a vast space surrounding us, because the universe wants to stretch to all limits finding all its forms – and if you put it all together so there is no space between, then you would arrive at the singularity i.e. the beginning [big bang].

Not sure if I believe in a creator god, as I draw no lines between things thus everything is god [given that there is a god]. And I do believe that we can comprehend it – at least that which is comprehendible.

Infinity is not chaotic or linear, it is incomparative – a beautiful emptiness!


Thanx for reply



Z

Hmmm, infinity can also be noted between the marks of a ruler. Take one inch (or centimeter if you wish). Half the measurement. Half it again, and again and again...How many times does one need to halve the measurement until there is a zero factor, or nothing left to halve?

It appears that the only reason there is "finiteness", is because we "humans" place borders, either because we can not conceive of the infinite, or we grow tired of trying to calculate it...so we stop at a certain point and say "this is good enough". eh?

v/r

Q

[Rouge47]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Hmmm, infinity can also be noted between the marks of a ruler. Take one inch (or centimeter if you wish). Half the measurement. Half it again, and again and again...How many times does one need to halve the measurement until there is a zero factor, or nothing left to halve?

It appears that the only reason there is "finiteness", is because we "humans" place borders, either because we can not conceive of the infinite, or we grow tired of trying to calculate it...so we stop at a certain point and say "this is good enough". eh?

v/r

Q

Interesting. Its like an atom. No matter how much you split it, it is still the exact same thing. You can go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.....and on....again....pink bunny....big drum....boom boom....I'm delusional....shouldn't of had that coffee....now I'm going on and on.....


Hehe,
Paul

[_Z_]

Quahom1, hi



Ha yes, we have to take a leap of faith – so to say – not trying to build up or down to infinity, just arriving there at once. We humans do place the borders between things, and this is where we fail in seeing the oneness.



Paul, hi. get the kettle on- more coffee needed



If you keep splitting you arrive at the quantum then beyond infinity. It is more like an ocean, e.g. a neutrino is simply spinning energy – like a whirlpool in the great ocean! Our minds too imho are like epicentres or vortexes of thought in the ocean of mind, we draw things in towards our centre and think of them, if in our meditations we do not ‘draw in’ but simply let go, then the mind merges with the universal mind of the ocean.



Thanx for replies



Z