belief, superstition, reality and truth

[Paladin]

Juan,
Rumi was a 13th century Sufi Mystic known for his love poems to God
Here's a small sample:
Rumi Love and Ecstasy Poems

[Joedjr]

Hi juantoo3,

Originally Posted by juantoo3

if I had only known beforehand what the price and burden was for the prayer I offered, I would likely not have asked.

I seem to have gotten on this path in a similar way. Every once in a while the choice to exit is offered, but for now I keep moving along. It's different than it was before, sometimes tiring, but I think this way is better.

Joe

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Remember the famous experiment by BF Skinner? He used pigeions and fed them at odd times of the day and irregular intervals. What he noticed was that the birds would repeat whatever behaviors they were doing when the pellets were dropped. In many rituals and belief systems we try to find some kind of control over what is seen as a chaotic world.

found this:

Superstition and psychology

In 1948, behavioural psychologist B.F. Skinner published an article in the Journal of Experimental Psychology, in which he describes his pigeons exhibiting what appeared to be superstitious behaviour. One pigeon was making turns in its cage, another would swing its head in a pendulum motion, while others also displayed a variety of other behaviours. Because these behaviours were all done ritualistically in an attempt to receive food from a dispenser, even though the dispenser had already been programmed to release food at set time intervals regardless of the pigeons' actions, Skinner believed that the pigeons were trying to influence their feeding schedule by performing these actions. He then extended this as a proposition regarding the nature of superstitious behaviour in humans.[10]

Skinner's theory regarding superstition being the nature of the pigeons' behaviour has been challenged by other psychologists such as Staddon and Simmelhag, who theorised an alternative explanation for the pigeons' behaviour.[11]

Despite challenges to Skinner's interpretation of the root of his pigeons' superstitious behaviour, his conception of the reinforcement schedule has been used to explain superstitious behaviour in humans. Originally, in Skinner's animal research, "some pigeons responded up to 10,000 times without reinforcement when they had originally been conditioned on an intermittent reinforcement basis."[12] Compared to the other reinforcement schedules (e.g. fixed ratio, fixed interval), these behaviours were also the most resistant to extinction.[12] This is called the partial reinforcement effect, and this has been used to explain superstitious behaviour in humans. To be more precise, this effect means that, whenever an individual performs an action expecting a reinforcement, and none seems forthcoming, it actually creates a sense of persistence within the individual.[13] This strongly parallels superstitious behaviour in humans because the individual feels that, by continuing this action, reinforcement will happen; or that reinforcement has come at certain times in the past as a result of this action, although not all the time, but this may be one of those times.

Superstition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Bandit]

Here are my examples of superstition including religious ones:

-Step on a crack break your mothers back.
-Get dunked in water or sprinkle water by the preacher and all your sins get washed away.
-Say Jesus is savior & 'poof' the magic wand waves & you go to heaven instead of hell.
-Break a mirror and have 7 years of bad luck.
-Make a doll and stick pins in it to cause other humans pain.
-When the volcano erupts, strong winds blow and the ground shakes, God is angry.
-Drive nails into a mans skull to release the devils.

You will find the same superstitions with planets, reincarnations, animals like dragons orient, sacred cows india , black cats pagan & white cats in egypt...and fowl...
Some others are feng shui lines, pagodas, crosses, beads, garlic, circumcision, oils, fortunes, crystals, chanting & whatever...

There are probably tens of thousands of superstitions found in all religious dogma, cultures. Maybe installed from childhood by use of fear and panic buttons(?). {Do this, & this will happen and if you don't do this, then that will happen} Kind of like a proverb only a superstitious one, lacking any thought or wisdom

Is Religion Just Organized Superstition? Is Superstition Always Religious?

Religion vs. Superstition: Is Religion Just Organized Superstition? Is Superstition Always Religious?

Is there a real connection between religion and superstition? Some, particular adherents of various religious faiths, will often argue that the two are fundamentally different types of beliefs. Those who stand outside of religion, however, will notice some very important and fundamental similarities which bear closer consideration.

Not that I agree with all of that article & don't give two hoots either way!
BTW Juan, we are on the same page. Only it is in all of the religions & cultures and not just the christian/hebrew one(s) and was a BIG turn off for me after discovering people think that way.

April 1st has some interesting superstitions surrounding it where all pracitical jokes must be played before noon and if you do a joke after noon then you get bad luck....so Happy All Fools Day.
Another good place to look ( I am sure you know) is at the Romans. I think it was papas gregory as one who said- black cats are of the devil

[mee]

Originally Posted by Pathless

The continuity is that Christianity has appropriated all sorts of pagan rituals and practices over time. These things were co-opted by the Catholic Church as a way of assimilating worshippers.

Easter/Ishtar: easter ishtar - Google Search

OH DEAR NOT GOOD putting easter in the bible when it should say PASSOVER

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by Bandit

BTW Juan, we are on the same page. Only it is in all of the religions & cultures and not just the christian/hebrew one(s) and was a BIG turn off for me after discovering people think that way.

Good to "see" you again old friend!

I do see much in all of the religions that an outsider could consider superstition, but that insiders almost seem to have to accept on faith.

Originally Posted by Bandit

April 1st has some interesting superstitions surrounding it where all pracitical jokes must be played before noon and if you do a joke after noon then you get bad luck....so Happy All Fools Day.
Another good place to look ( I am sure you know) is at the Romans. I think it was papas gregory as one who said- black cats are of the devil

Seems to me Poppa Gregory had some to do with April Fool's day as well, at least according to some. It was while he was in office that Christopher Clavius corrected the calendar for the Catholic countries, I want to say something like 1585AD +/-. The calendar had been getting further and further out of sync with the seasons until April 1st was about to mark the New Year (used to be on the spring equinox). The decree went out along with the correction to the calendar that any who celebrated New Year's on April 1st was a fool...hence, April Fool's day.

Correction: 1582 AD,

Christopher Clavius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Remember the famous experiment by BF Skinner? He used pigeions and fed them at odd times of the day and irregular intervals. What he noticed was that the birds would repeat whatever behaviors they were doing when the pellets were dropped. In many rituals and belief systems we try to find some kind of control over what is seen as a chaotic world.

Isn't that how beings learn and evolve? It takes a lot of banging around hit and miss fashion before the pattern or inherent logic of something appears. I imagine if there had been some coherent, if complex, pattern to the pidgeon's experience with getting the pellets they would have found it. The headline would be "Pidgeons found to have amazing ability to recognize complex patterns."

Chris