Beginnings...

[Prober]

Originally Posted by dauer

Prober,

just because the myth is not taken literally does not mean the 7 days of creation are no longer tied to the days of the week. The names of the days of the week in hebrew are all numbered and then Shabbat is called by name. Even when it's not taken literally, the rhythm still remains the same. I had a profesor who would say that musically, it's like the other days are the regular notes and Shabbos is like a rest note. Shabbat is also linked in the Torah to the exodus from mitzrayim, and both ideas are important.

Okay. I get that. Shabbos is a kind of reflection in human terms of a divine thing, not the divine thing itself? Not the "aniversary of G-d's resting" per se, but a pointing back or a remembering of it?

Yes, that is a really really big question to give a good, thorough answer. But if you really want to learn more about shabbat I would suggest first:

MyJewishLearning.com - Daily Life: Shabbat

Thanks. I'm going to have to read that in order to understand more.

It can be understood that way, as almost a time outside of time. Heschel liked to call it an island of time and would talk about it as a time to be instead of to do. I think there may be an essay from him or about him on that site. He also wrote a book called The Sabbath that's a classic, and a really beautiful heartfelt work. He loved to get really poetic. Shabbos starts and ends not at a fixed hour, but is instead determined by the position of the sun and stars in the sky which really helps to make it feel like something separate and distinct from regular time. It doesn't follow the same rules as the rest of the week.

I have a good sense of this. The Heshel book sounds really interesting. I'll have to look for it.

Shabbat is also called a taste of olam haba which is the world-to-come, can either mean the time after the messiah comes or the afterlife. But there are just so many themes and idea connected to it. It's such a central thing in Judaism. It's not an accident that myjewishlearning puts it under daily life and practice instead of holidays. Sometimes it's compared to a bride or a queen, related to the Shechinah, the divine feminine that is the indwelling presence of God. But that site I gave really should be pretty good for an overview of a lot of the different concepts, from the different denominational perspectives. I'm not sure actually if it covers the melachot well, the types of work traditionally not allowed on shabbat, but there are sites you can find if you do a search.

Dauer

Many thanks for the big fork with which to eat the elephant (which would be unclean, wouldn't it.)!

Best regards,
Mark

[dauer]

Okay. I get that. Shabbos is a kind of reflection in human terms of a divine thing, not the divine thing itself? Not the "aniversary of G-d's resting" per se, but a pointing back or a remembering of it?

There are three categories for mitzvot. A chok is something we don't necessarily understand the meaning. A mishpat is more related to doing what is right and just. An edah is more related to remembering something that happened. And they can overlap. According to some passages in the gemara all of the mitzvot essentially amount to chukim.

Whether a Jewish observance is taken as literally going through what happened or as just a rememberance really has to do with where an individual falls on the scale of mysticism vs. rationalism. There can be a real attempt on the mystical end to experience the holidays and observances as really happening, to partake of the myth. When you exit mitzrayim, you should really experience yourself leaving. When it's shavuot which will be coming at the end of the omer, you should really experience yourself at sinai for the revelation. I was actually thinking last night, that during the Torah service when we say "v'zot ha-Torah..." that this is the Torah given by Moshe to Israel, the word of God transmitted through Moshe, from a mystical perspective it's really a lot like communion in Christianity. We are saying this Torah, this one before us. From a more rational perspective of course, it's saying it contains the same thing, not that we should see it as literally the same.

I was just reading over the rest of your post -- yes, I'm one of those people who responds to each piece and then finishes reading :O -- and another teaching came to mind. That even more than the Jewish people have kept Shabbat, Shabbat has kept the Jewish people. If you have more specific questions about Shabbat I can gladly answer. It's just kinda difficult to give a full overview without pointing you somewhere else. I looked up a site for the melachot. The one I had wanted to give you is a dead link now:

Torah Tots 39 Melachot

That it's a kids' site isn't such a bad thing. My favorite book on the melachot is an illustrated childrens' book that even has a picture of the mishkan, tracing each of the avot melachah to different activities of its construction, sourcing everything, etc.

Dauer

[Prober]

Originally Posted by dauer

According to some passages in the gemara all of the mitzvot essentially amount to chukim.

I have that feeling...

Whether a Jewish observance is taken as literally going through what happened or as just a rememberance really has to do with where an individual falls on the scale of mysticism vs. rationalism. There can be a real attempt on the mystical end to experience the holidays and observances as really happening, to partake of the myth. When you exit mitzrayim, you should really experience yourself leaving. When it's shavuot which will be coming at the end of the omer, you should really experience yourself at sinai for the revelation.

Cool! Okay, so everybody can enjoy Shabbos together, each at his own level. I'm seeing it.

I was actually thinking last night, that during the Torah service when we say "v'zot ha-Torah..." that this is the Torah given by Moshe to Israel, the word of God transmitted through Moshe, from a mystical perspective it's really a lot like communion in Christianity. We are saying this Torah, this one before us. From a more rational perspective of course, it's saying it contains the same thing, not that we should see it as literally the same.

Yeah, not the book, the connection...

That even more than the Jewish people have kept Shabbat, Shabbat has kept the Jewish people.

It's a comforting thought...

If you have more specific questions about Shabbat I can gladly answer. It's just kinda difficult to give a full overview without pointing you somewhere else. I looked up a site for the melachot. The one I had wanted to give you is a dead link now:

Torah Tots 39 Melachot

That it's a kids' site isn't such a bad thing. My favorite book on the melachot is an illustrated childrens' book that even has a picture of the mishkan, tracing each of the avot melachah to different activities of its construction, sourcing everything, etc.

Dauer

Thanks. Much reading to do...

I finally bought the JPS Tanakh I was wanting...


Mark