bat qol

[didymus]

Is anyone here familiar with the term bat qol? IF so can you give me some information?

[dauer]

It was unfamiliar to me so I googled it and found a decent article:

http://www.jhom.com/topics/voice/bat_kol.htm

This link has many quotes from Talmud that involve a bat kol:

http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=729

[dauer]

That second site is a little odd. I don't know what to make of it.

[bananabrain]

i don't see what's odd about the second site. but maybe that's just me. anyway, the best translation i've ever seen is "Divine echo" - in other words, it's the echo of Revelation, not a new Revelation, simply an angelic voice repeating what has already been said on the subject for a new audience. batei qol are superior to some forms of authority and can be "used in the event of a tie", in theory, but they cannot overrule a majority interpretative decision of humans, (illustrated by the famous story of the oven of achnai in bava metzia 59b) nor do they outrank prophecy - prophecy had ceased by the time of the batei qol. now we do not even hear them.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[dauer]

It's not the page but the other pages on that site, like the one about Jesus:

http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=89

Or the one about the early church:

http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=39

On Constantine and on his mother Helena finding the stump from the tree used for Jesus' cross:

http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=51

However, when discussing al-andalus a point is made to say that times weren't all good and at one time Jews fled from the Muslims to the Christians:

http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=74

So while it's clear this is a Jewish site teaching Judaism, it is a little odd. Maybe the guy is writing for an interfaith congregation.

[didymus]

One of the reasons i brought this is up is due to the bat qol( if it could be called that)at Jesus' baptism. The voice from heaven which said'this is my son, of whom i am proud) I have heard that this has parallels to the bat qol and that this statement from God may have roots in another religion(Judasim?) Do you know anything of this?

Also, this is off topic, but what can you tell me of the chances of jesus being brought to court by the jewish people on a passover holiday. My understanding is that this is extremely unlikely.

according to 3 of the gospels the last meal Jesus had with his disciples was a passover supper. Acccording to it, the interrogation of jesus by the high priest and the council, as well as his condemnation and actual execution, all occur on 15 Nisan, the feast day of Passover. Is it possible that religious leadership would have broken rules such as; prohibition of court hearings and the pronouncement and execution of death sentences on festive days and the sabbath?

[dauer]

Originally Posted by didymus

One of the reasons i brought this is up is due to the bat qol( if it could be called that)at Jesus' baptism. The voice from heaven which said'this is my son, of whom i am proud) I have heard that this has parallels to the bat qol and that this statement from God may have roots in another religion(Judasim?) Do you know anything of this?

I am not familiar with a similar statement but someone else might be.

Is it possible that religious leadership would have broken rules such as; prohibition of court hearings and the pronouncement and execution of death sentences on festive days and the sabbath?

I don't think it's possible at all. There are some other issues with the trial. I know there are a couple sites that analyze the different ways it conflicts with Jewish law as far as testimony and witnesses and whatnot, but I don't have any bookmarked.

Dauer