Baptists divided over female professors teaching men

[BlaznFattyz]

DALLAS — A group of Southern Baptists are divided over a seminary's decision to dismiss a female faculty member because officials there believe women should not be allowed to teach men in theology programs.


Sheri Klouda received her doctorate from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and was hired for a tenure-track position in 2002 teaching Hebrew in the theology school. But in 2004, she was told she would not get tenure and should look for another job, a series of events confirmed by Van McClain, chairman of the Southwestern trustees.


Southwestern is taking the "traditional, confessional and biblical position" that women should not teach men in theology or biblical languages, McClain said. That position is based on a Biblical verse in which the Apostle Paul says, "I permit no woman to teach or have authority over a man."...



Cont'd

[wil]

We've come a long way baby....maybe not.

Whatta shame she can't teach in her own denomination...

There are others that will welcome her with open arms.

[17th Angel]

Women!? Teaching men?! Madness!!! lol...What next, they'll be freaking wearing trousers!!!

[pattimax]

Interesting story.
Tenure is worth too much to some otherwise very intelligent people.
If you are interested...//weskenney.net.
You can also google "Sherri Klouda."

[wil]

Heck it is five years...02-07...she can move on and teach someplace else.

Maybe she did misread, or misinterpret or have some delusions of grandeur that she was going to get the old boy network to move over...

Either way, time to find a place that wants her, if she is as intelligent and learned as they indicate and a good teacher she should have no problem finding those that do.

I'd say there exists a completely valid reason the officials indicate they can't learn anything from woman teacher...tis a shame.

[pattimax]

wil,

The issue is not whether or not she CAN throw up her hands and move on (obviously, this issue is in the "what was she thinking" category), of course she can and IMO would be better off. The issue is about professorial tenure and ultimately money.

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

Southwestern is taking the "traditional, confessional and biblical position" that women should not teach men in theology or biblical languages, McClain said. That position is based on a Biblical verse in which the Apostle Paul says, "I permit no woman to teach or have authority over a man."...

Men and women. Are they really different?

Well . . . actually, men have more gray matter. Women have more white matter. It kind of explains why there are more men in engineering and technical disciplines, and why women are better at multi-tasking than men.

ScienceDaily: Intelligence In Men And Women Is A Gray And White Matter

In general, men have approximately 6.5 times the amount of gray matter related to general intelligence than women, and women have nearly 10 times the amount of white matter related to intelligence than men. Gray matter represents information processing centers in the brain, and white matter represents the networking of or connections between these processing centers.

Do men and women think and behave differently?

As is often said, men are shy about expressing their deepest, most inner thoughts and feelings. We are intimidated, afraid of and frightened by events and actions that penetrate deep into our inner being. It makes sense. We don't want to be embarrassed and belittled about our weaknesses and shortcomings. We're too shy for that. We don't want people to laugh at or make fun of us.

But most importantly, we're beasts with feelings. It's our soft side. We do our best to keep people away from that soft side because when people penetrate deep into our soul and manage to access our soft side, we find ourselves naked!!! We don't want to feel naked. No!!!!

That's why men are shy about expressing feelings. It's like being naked. Sometimes a man needs to act strong to keep himself covered. It's not good for a man to be caught with his pants down.

Concerning women teaching men . . .

I think it's something similar. It has to do with shyness and embarrassment at being belittled.

But now that we're living in the twenty-first century, it may be a bit easier for people in society to understand these issues. There's better communication, better flow of and exchange of ideas. People are better educated and informed, particularly with relationships. Women may now be a bit more sensitive about how men think and their shyness at being "belittled."

But back 2,000 years ago, where there was less communication, and where people would not have had as many options on where and when they could express themselves, I guess people were simply stuck with whatever stereotypes they had on manhood and womanhood. One also had to contend with the underlying culture in which one lived. In twenty-first century Western society, people are a bit more liberal about their attitudes toward the two sexes. Back then when life was harder, you had to accept whatever society hung on your back. So I can imagine that men and women were less sensitive to the other sex. Men and women didn't really understand each other that well back then.

So women having authority would be "belittling" to a man, especially for women who weren't sensitive about the deep, hidden feelings of men.

In today's world, I don't think there should be a problem with women having authority over men. I think it's a time in human history when men and women understand each other better and are more sensitive to each other's behaviours and thoughts.

It's not just about women getting rights, it's also about getting to know men better.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

...Southwestern is taking the "traditional, confessional and biblical position" that women should not teach men in theology or biblical languages, McClain said. That position is based on a Biblical verse in which the Apostle Paul says, "I permit no woman to teach or have authority over a man."...
Cont'd

I believe the literal translation is "I permit no wife (gune) to teach [dominate] or have authority over a husband (aner), but to be in quietness (sigao)." That means no bossy chatterbox wife, not a mute subserviant robot. It has nothing to do with women in authority over men in general or in societal functions, but rather within the home.

Proverbs 21: 9 "It is better to live on the corner of a roof than in a large home with a contentious wife".
...and Proverbs 27: 15 "A continual dropping in a very rainy day, and a contentious woman are alike".

It appears the university has bent scripture to fit their collective ideals as opposed to how they were actually meant.

v/r

Joshua

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

It appears the university has bent scripture to fit their collective ideals as opposed to how they were actually meant.

It's tradition.

[BlaznFattyz]

god called men to act, there is no getting around that; however, that time of prophets and apostles has gone and we are all called now to act thru the spirit of christ as brothers and sisters.

god has appointed men as the head of the family, and has given us men the responsibility of being the spiritual leader of the family, and that has not changed, although some do not take on the responsibility.

if a woman nowadays is full of wisdom of the lord, it is unwise to not listen.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by pattimax

It's tradition.

Perhaps, but is it wise tradition?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

god called men to act, there is no getting around that; however, that time of prophets and apostles has gone and we are all called now to act thru the spirit of christ as brothers and sisters.

god has appointed men as the head of the family, and has given us men the responsibility of being the spiritual leader of the family, and that has not changed, although some do not take on the responsibility.

if a woman nowadays is full of wisdom of the lord, it is unwise to not listen.

I submit that if anyone if full of wisdom of the Lord, and that is recognized as such, that it would be unwise not to listen, as well...

[johnp.]

Hello Saltmeister.

It appears the university has bent scripture to fit their collective ideals as opposed to how they were actually meant.

"...Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." Gen 3:16. Sexual inequality is part of the fall and should not be continued by Christians. If there is ambiguity in the scriptures then we should go for sexual equality first. Eve was made a suitable helper and was given the same task as Adam.
Women did take leading roles on occassion in the OT and NT. Huldah the prophetess was consulted about a book that had been found even though Jeremiah and Zephaniah were knocking about. She then dictated to the king what he must do. Junias, in Acts, was a female Apostle.

As is often said, men are shy about expressing their deepest, most inner thoughts and feelings.

I think men and women compliment each other. If men do not show emotion in the same way as women it is because that is normal for men, we are not lacking just because women want to talk about emotions and cry all the time and we don't. Women are not a standard to be copied by men.
I've seen emotion from men at football matches and a look or a grunt tells our friends exactly were we are at with the wife and the world. I think a trouble shared is a trouble doubled. If there is an upset what comfort is there in telling another person? Misery loves company?

Men and women are different but equal. Two halves making one. I'd rather listen to a Godly woman with knowledge than a Godly man with none anyday.

john.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by johnp.

Hello Saltmeister.



"...Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." Gen 3:16. Sexual inequality is part of the fall and should not be continued by Christians. If there is ambiguity in the scriptures then we should go for sexual equality first. Eve was made a suitable helper and was given the same task as Adam.
Women did take leading roles on occassion in the OT and NT. Huldah the prophetess was consulted about a book that had been found even though Jeremiah and Zephaniah were knocking about. She then dictated to the king what he must do. Junias, in Acts, was a female Apostle.



I think men and women compliment each other. If men do not show emotion in the same way as women it is because that is normal for men, we are not lacking just because women want to talk about emotions and cry all the time and we don't. Women are not a standard to be copied by men.
I've seen emotion from men at football matches and a look or a grunt tells our friends exactly were we are at with the wife and the world. I think a trouble shared is a trouble doubled. If there is an upset what comfort is there in telling another person? Misery loves company?

Men and women are different but equal. Two halves making one. I'd rather listen to a Godly woman with knowledge than a Godly man with none anyday.

john.

The problem is that the bible did see one small issue, that Saltmeister is attempting to point out, and Paul was insuring we did not miss.

Woman will desire after man and man will rule over her. Within the home. There is one legitimate ruler. That is the husband. Show me an insignificant husband, and I will show you a dysfunctianal family, regardless of what the wife tries to do.

If the term "woman will desire after man" had to do with sex, there would be no problems in life if one thinks about it. But it is rule, man's rule and woman desiring to ascribe to that position of rule within the family, that is what is meant.

We can see the lack of men ruling families in the Capitol of our country (and I don't mean the rich and powerful, though that is appropriate as well)...

I don't think women want to take over persee, but once having no choice, are loathe to give it up. So when a healthy "male" presence comes into play...there is conflict. Just like when a soldier comes home from war to a "bride" who has taken care of business for so long...

And if one thinks about it, no "healthy male" will really try to deal with "damaged goods". Not in the animal world...the pack ignores, or kills off the "strange ones"...unless the shebitch can beat the rest, and then submit to the Alpha male...very hard to do...usually the pack splinters off and dies.

[Francis king]

male and female, in his image, he created them.... apparently...