Baha`i:Islam::Christianity:Judaism

[bananabrain]

Originally Posted by BuzzLY

Jews do seperate themselves from the rest of humanity by claiming to be G!D's chosen people. It's hard not to interpret that as Jews regarding themselves as superior.

oh, yes, of course, we know that. and a lot of us have a problem avoiding interpreting it that way. it doesn't make this viewpoint correct or authoritative and i myself strongly refute it. however, i think you should consider my viewpoint on this issue, which is that this is primarily a language problem. the phrase "chosen people" is from the king james english (via translation from latin, translated from greek, translated from hebrew) bible and is not a reliable translation of the phrase 'AM SeGuLaH, "'am" meaning a people and "segulah" being from the word "segol" meaning a jewel, so, maybe precious, treasured? nobody really knows. either way the *hebrew* implies neither superiority nor reward. there are sources which speak of us being literally "chosen", using the word "BaHaR" but these are in the context of our being chosen by G!D *to receive the Torah*, not because we were better than anyone else. we were chosen without our consent - only at sinai did we exercise our consent and it was a one-time-only offer. the *english* connotations of the phrase "chosen people" do not exist in the original - so you can hardly expect me to feel responsible for it.

Why should people be so offended and shocked that new revelations claim to transcend old ones?

probably because of the tendency of the former to enforce their claims about the latter with swords, red-hot pokers, stakes, kindling, conversion, holy wars and a smorgasbord of delightful propaganda.

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Microsoft brings out a new internet explorer. Some people will prefer the old one and some people will prefer the new one. Sooner or later the people using the old explorer will be left behind while the ones using the newer one advance.

what a well-chosen metaphor. has anyone noticed that microsoft's upgrades overwhelm you with their plethora of overdesigned features whilst failing to deliver any really convincing benefits? that's without even mentioning the new bugs they've created in the process? yet we still surf pretty much the way we always did without using any technology that was the exclusive revelation, sorry, invention of microsoft. i look forward to your reaction, postmaster, when "matrixism" attempts to evangelise in the heartland of greek orthodoxy.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[BuzzLY]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

probably because of the tendency of the former to enforce their claims about the latter with swords, red-hot pokers, stakes, kindling, conversion, holy wars and a smorgasbord of delightful propaganda.

Please spare us. The only reason the latter does not war more against the former is that they are smaller in numbers. Judaism is responsible for more than its share of religious wars against others and even against themselves. In terms of a propensity for inculcating war Jewish scripture is second only that of Islam.

People can be so amazingly hypocritical when it comes to religion.

[BuzzLY]

Is it just me or does Postmaster seem like a Baha'i's sock puppet dressed up to look like a Christian?

[Postmaster]

I'd rather be a baha'i then a cynic. But I'am a Christian. I regard Baha'i as complimentary philosophy. .

[Mick]

Originally Posted by BuzzLY

Is it just me or does Postmaster seem like a Baha'i's sock puppet dressed up to look like a Christian?

I think it is just you. I haven't noticed anybody coming to support your thoughts up to this point.

[BuzzLY]

Yeah, I don't really like playing with sock puppets.

[BruceDLimber]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

now I'm using Baha'i tactics.

""Tis a consummation devoutly to be wished!"

:-)

Bruce

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Lets see how far matrixism actually goes. If it’s of God or the divine it will flourish if not it will decay and your argument will be proven wrong.



Damn now I'm using Baha'i tactics.

Actually those are much the same words Queen Victoria answered Baha`u'llah's letter with.

Regards,
Scott

[bananabrain]

Originally Posted by BuzzLY

Please spare us. The only reason the latter does not war more against the former is that they are smaller in numbers. Judaism is responsible for more than its share of religious wars against others and even against themselves.

rather than making generalised accusations of such an unpleasant nature please provide examples. i'm not talking about the book of joshua and taking biblical translations literally here - i'm talking about judaism as it was designed to be practised. to my knowledge there have been no such religious wars in recorded history.

In terms of a propensity for inculcating war Jewish scripture is second only that of Islam.

charming. i don't think you have the least idea about how "jewish scripture" actually works. it is impossible to have a religiously sanctioned war in judaism since the time of solomon in the absence of prophecy, a functional and religiously observant king and priestly/Temple establishment. you only have to read "jewish scripture" to see how this has not been the case for virtually all the kings of israel, judah and judea. likewise, you only have to know a small amount of our oral tradition to know that the priestly/Temple establishment has been grossly impaired since the destruction of the first Temple in 586 CE and prophecy ceased before the destruction of the second Temple. consequently, even if we wanted to make religious war, we lack the authority. i believe i have already pointed out to you that we lack the inclination.

so basically, your argument seems to be "well, you would oppress people religiously if you could, but you can't, so you don't." in other words, give a dog a bad name and hang him. you haven't provided any evidence for this viewpoint other than your opinion. the fact is that conversion to judaism is not a requirement and indeed is positively discouraged and without the insecurity that drives one to insist that others must convert to one's own way of thinking the idea that judaism requires oppression of the other simply doesn't stack up.

as it says in the Oral Law (of which you seem to be ignorant):

"the righteous amongst the nations have a portion in the world to come".

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Popeyesays]

I guess meat puppets stick to their own?

Regards,
Scott

[Postmaster]

i look forward to your reaction, postmaster, when "matrixism" attempts to evangelise in the heartland of greek orthodoxy.

I had no problem when Mc Donald’s arrived.

[Popeyesays]

One thing I've always admired about Judaism is it's air of sober reflection and respect for opinion. No matter how bitter the contention on any topic, they remain brothers in faith. This union from many opinions is most admirable.

Regards,
Scott

[Postmaster]

...... comment withdrawn

[Postmaster]

what a well-chosen metaphor. has anyone noticed that microsoft's upgrades overwhelm you with their plethora of overdesigned features whilst failing to deliver any really convincing benefits? that's without even mentioning the new bugs they've created in the process? yet we still surf pretty much the way we always did without using any technology that was the exclusive revelation, sorry, invention of microsoft.

And which version of internet explorer are you using? The latest ones come with upgrade hacker and virus protection. My metaphor is a good one and now you have resorted to a petty argument. There is few reasons why one would hold on to the old explorer, maybe they are financially and socially tied up to it and so constantly keep adding patches so they can carry on. That applies to all religions and probably any organization in general. Some people are forced into the new and some people keep the old with force. Which one is better?

[dauer]

I think Judaism is a bit more like the linux OS. It's all more open-sourced, different people have created their own versions some users prefer over others with different interfaces and emphasis on better performance in different areas. When there are bugs in the system, everybody is able to do work on it, and the different systems and can integrate some of the work of other people in ways that work well with the way they've setup the OS.

Microsoft is a company that's run by a particular organization. It is not okay to hack it or try and make your own version. If you want to run microsoft, you have to get the version they liscense. There are no alternatives if you don't like the interface without adding additional programming on top, which usually slows down the computer because it's not integrated into the OS. I'm not comparing any religion to Microsoft, but I do not think that a giant, monolithic, faceless corporate entity is what you want to be comparing something you care about to. And even the most current windows OS is more susceptible to viruses than a mac or a computer running linux. Blame bad code from the start, and lots of patches that never addressed the real issue. It was always pretty flawed software. Now microsoft is going to be releasing a new OS that "surprise" looks more like a mac, and is also taking some "under the hood" cues from its competitors. But enough about computers. This stopped being about religion a few sentences into my post. lol

Dauer