Aztlan

[sara[h]ng]

Does anyone know anything about Aztlan, the (mythical or historical?) homeland of the Aztecs?

I, myself, knew nothing about it until today when one of my professors was showing me pictures of excavations done on a mountain near where I live. There is an artificial 'floor' and aside from natural phenomena (very unlikely, imho, as there is no known natural formation that matches it, as I'm told) the only other currently existing explanation is that it was built by the Aztecs.

I was a little surprised at this, as I live in Western Colorado and didn't know that they lived this far up, and in fact, that is under debate, but legend apparently says that the Aztecs came from the North and many historians think that their homeland is in Utah - very near to me. Of course, many also think that Aztlan is a symbolic place, like the Garden of Eden.

I might intern this summer, furthering the excavations and doing some other fun stuff that I never thought I'd get to do - looking for lost/mythical civilizations, wow! - so I'm kinda hot for this topic right now.

Googling has produced subpar results. Knowledge anyone?

Sarah

[taijasi]

Sarah,

I cannot speak from personal experience regarding the following passages; however, I find them most interesting, and worthy of pursuit. The original source is Humboldt, F. H. A. von (Baron), as quoted in The Secret Doctrine (Vol. I, 322-3):

"It is known that tradition among the Aztecs has handed down a very perfect account of the deluge. . . . Baron Humboldt says that we are to look for the country of Aztalan, the original country of the Aztecs, as high up at least as the 42nd parallel north; whence, journeying, they at last arrived in the vale of Mexico. In that vale the earthen mounds of the far north become the elegant stone pyramidal and other structures whose remains are now found. The correspondences between the Aztec remains and those of the Egyptians are well known. . . . Attwater, from examination of hundreds of them, is convinced that they had a knowledge of astronomy. As to one of the most perfect of the pyramidal structures among the Aztecs, Humboldt gives a description to the following effect:

"The form of this pyramid (of Papantla) which has seven stories, is more tapering than any other monument of this kind yet discovered, but its height is not remarkable, being but 57 feet, its base but 25 feet on each side. However, it is remarkable on one account: it is built entirely of hewn stones, of an extraordinary size, and very beautifully shaped. Three staircases lead to the top, the steps of which are decorated with hieroglyphical sculptures and small niches arranged with great symmetry. The number of these niches seems to allude to the 318 simple and compound signs of the days of their civil calendar."

"318 is the Gnostic value of Christ," remarks the author, "and the famous number of the trained or circumcised servants of Abraham. When it is considered that 318 is an abstract value, and universal, as expressive of a diameter value to a circumference of unity, its use in the composition of the civil calendar becomes manifest."

Identical glyphs, numbers and esoteric symbols are found in Egypt, Peru, Mexico, Easter Island, India, Chaldea, and Central Asia. Crucified men, and symbols of the evolution of races from gods ...

Hope that helps.

Andrew

[Thomas]

I recall anthropologists working with blood types traced successive migrations throughout the continental US ... their findings led them to believe that peoples who settled in the South were pushed south by incomers heading down from the North ... by migrations across the Baring Straights.

Thomas

[sara[h]ng]

Thanks, Andrew. That gives me a place to start reading about it.

As for the blood types, of course that theory is the one taught in schools and is widely known and accepted.

I recall reading in some book, I want to say it was one of those ones by Graham Hancock or someone like him, (Maybe the Atlantis Blueprint? [diff author] I don't remember.) that that theory originally came about because of the remains of a single village somewhere in Western Canada or NW US.

If that is true, then it is a lucky coincidence that something so absolute as blood testing yielded the same overall theory. If it isn't true, then my whole point in bringing this up is moot.

What I wonder is, there is some evidence, if one is so inclined, of connection between Egypt and the Aztecs and others in the 'New World', and that that connection could have been the existence of a civilization such as Atlantis. If this is the case, why does it not show up in places such as migration patterns as evidenced by blood?

Sarah

[InLove]

Originally Posted by Thomas

I recall anthropologists working with blood types traced successive migrations throughout the continental US ... their findings led them to believe that peoples who settled in the South were pushed south by incomers heading down from the North ... by migrations across the Baring Straights.

From what I understand, the idea that people migrated across the Bering Straits from what is now called Asia to what is now called America is only one theory--and has not been proven. Do you have more info, Thomas?

InPeace,
InLove

[flowperson]

InLove:

The Bering Strait migration paths seem to have been only one of several routes for the settlement of N. America, based upon ongoing archaeological findings. There are excavations in the Carolinas that are turning up evidence of habitation back 15,000- 20,000 years, and in Pennsylvania back 30,000 years. In general, the Bering migrations seem to date from 15,000 years ago at the earliest.

On the west coast evidence of voyagers from Polynesia and China going back at least as far as the Bering migrations are being found in excavations here and there. Experts believe that theearliest such people were "coastline huggers" and not open sea voyagers. Voyagers may have arrived later.

There's not really any revealed skeleton evidence yet that doesen't fit the Eurasian model that supports Bering migrations, but it has been suggested after extensive examinations by Paleoanthropologists and experts in comparative anatomy, that Kennewick Man, a 10,000 year old skeleton found near the Hanford WA nuclear site, is anatomically very closely related to the ancient Ainus who inhabited the Japanese archapeligo before the current inhabitants, about 10,000-20,000 years ago.

The possibility that habitation occured in lake-filled savannahs in what is now a part of the Mojave Desert was also explored by noneother than Louis Leaky who headed the beginnings of an excavation to find evidence of early habitation near Yermo CA and the Calico Mountains. Only rudimentary stone implements were found and no evidence of habitation. Leaky inconveniently died before the project got very far, but there's some stuff on the web about it and his biography mentions the project in its closing chapter(s). Experts believe that the existing evidence points to about 100,000 years ago.

Then there's the common mythological thread among many native American tribes concerning their origins that their original ancestors, known commonly as "the people", came forth from the earth in the distant past.

flow....

[InLove]

Hi flow--

Thanks for the info--

Yes, it was that last part you mentioned that intrigues me the most. Sometimes I think it makes the most sense, but then, I am flexible.

It has been suggested among the descendents of the ancient natives that the Bering Strait theory is merely another vehicle with which to justify disposessing others of their homes. I don't know exactly what to think about that, but perhaps it is worth considering, along with archeological findings. I understand why some of the more scientific answers are looked upon with suspicion.

InPeace,
InLove

[RusticMusic]

Hi there!,
Just browsing through and happened upon this thread . It brought to mind , (especially the comment about the bering straight ice bridge, Beringia??) It had always seemed unlikely to me that peoples would traverse this massive ice bridge in search of food only to end up in barren alaska . But then I realized these were a more rugged people . Far different then myself (acclumated to central heat!) and I realize that in many ways , my ancestors were alot stronger and knowledgable (in a different sort of way) then I ever will be.
Which brought me to this train of thought: The idea of ancient mariners , if nomads could walk the insane distance from asia to N. America , then why could they not travel the oceans. And then I remember reading about a theory of the Costa Rican Spheres.
These were found in the 1930's by the United Fruit Company , which had decided to clear some of the Costa Rican jungle for a banana plantation. Anyways the workers began finding huge granite stones , some as big as 9 feet in diameter the others the size of baseballs. The fact that these werer perfect spheres (smooth as paper) was pretty astonishing. But some of the wealthier people thought of them as novelty and many were moved around to front lawns and state buildings. Most original positions were lost. But in the 40's an american archeaologist marked the undisturbed spheres on a map. He found they appeared frequently in three's (in an odd sort of triangle) and some were in long straight lines. The thing was , these groups contained different sized spheres. Why?

In 1981 Ivar Zapp from the University of Costa Rica suggested they might be 'ley lines' similiar to Englands ancient pathways that were discovered by Alfred Watkins in 1920(?) So Zapp figured these spheres were a sort of guide for ancient mariners. Somehow he lined up a few sphere groups with the Galapagos and Easter Island.
This doesn't make sense to me though.. Easter Island to my knowledge is in the middle of nowhere , How did these guys find it? Or did the Easter Islanders hit the mainland? Costa Rica obviously a navigators culture,(surrounded by water on two sides) and they used the stars as a compass. I think..

Anyways that's what popped into my head upon perusing throught this thread. I haven't decided for myself if there WAS a connection between the ancient americas civilizations and the far east, but we know our ancestors did amazing things. And we can't help but note similarities in cultural achievements by civilizations that were seemingly cut off from each other.
Do comment!

[pfw]

I was always under the impression that the Aztecs pretty much took over the buildings left behind by the Mayans and weren't particularly skilled builders themselves-good enough to repair and maintain but no real actual building skills.